Imagethief picks up the debate on the age issue of He Kexin, the golden girl of Chinese gymnastics, and notices a cold-war double standard in some of the mainstream media report with a story plot of Ours=plucky, heroic achievers. Theirs=manufactured robots/slaves/dopers.
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“China: He Kexin and “babygate””
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He Kexin is no more that 12 years old. Her hip and muscular structure are those of a very young girl. China should immediately give back the gold medals and remove the entire cheating Chinese gymnastics teams. Of course, the Chinese Gymnastics coach will have make a full apology to the world. He may have been under intense political pressure to win gold. I feel sorry for him.
True true america did good :! bt its jst sad tht they lost. poor smerica BUT china won fair and square. asian girls tend to look younger then they actually are. i’ve had girls of 21 in my class and they looked about 15 / 16. its natural and they grow old slower. there is no proof of them being underage its all just judging them by their looks. The IOC nd FIG had evidence which were photos of He Kexin and her teammates in year 1992 wwhen she was born. there are brth certificates and schooling certoficates. they are al within age limit and americans like us should learn to be better losers even tho that sounds harsh but it is true. we’re trying to take away their victory and become sore losers but we should all let it go. theres no way china’s gymnasts are underage. theres evidence to therfore . just forget about it. They deserve the gold medals . they won fair and square.
He Kexin certainly looks under 16 but then why didn’t the people look into this earlier!Oh wait, she has the gold, let’s take it from her!Whatever the result of the investigation is people should question why it wasn’t looked into earlier if its such an issue.I’m not entirely convinced all the gymnasts are the right age,I even heard a commentator say a Russian gymnast is 15 years of age!But she didn’t win a medal so no probes there! HMPH!
Even if China loses it’s medals for the women
a)The men dominated more than enough to say China takes the gymnastics overall!
b)China still comes out on top on the medal tables!
c)China’s been a brilliant host!
d)For once in my life the US doesn’t dominate the games!
It’s a little hard to believe that the Chinese girls are of legal age when one of them is still losing teeth. That usually stops around the age of 10-12. As for the 15-year-old Romanian girl, she probably turns 16 in this calendar year. Therefore, she is eligible to compete. Yes, China has the gold but at what cost to fair play. I don’t think it’s a matter of America getting the gold, but the fairness of the games. By the way, did anyone notice how the judges padded the scores of the Chinese ladies in gymnastics??? Other gymnasts would take a small hop on a landing, and the scores would drop several tenths of a point. The Chinese ladies would fall to their knees and their score would maybe drop a couple of hundredths of a point. How is that possible??? Can it be that they favored the home team???
“The Chinese ladies would fall to their knees and their score would maybe drop a couple of hundredths of a point. How is that possible??? Can it be that they favored the home team???”
It’s the degree of difficulty that counts. On the uneven bars, He Kexin did something that no one did in gynastics. It’s called invention of a new style, where Nastia just did the usual routine. I rather see someone does a difficult and unique skill and maybe wobble a bit on the landing than someone who does a boring routine skill and land perfectly. He deserved the gold. The commentator admitted that the release skill He did on uneven bars was incredible! By the way, the judges are NOT Chinese, so how can they be biased. If they were biased, they would have given more points to Americans since they are western democratic countries. There must be something that we laymen don’t understand when we only expect a perfect landing, but to the judges it’s much more than that.
Get real, folks. Might is right. Get mighty and maybe then you’d be right also.
Isn’t the perfect landing what was emphasized by those commendators that you listened to during these games??? I heard more about landings than I did about original and innovative skills. It would be nice if gymnastics had definitive scoring like swimming, but it doesn’t. It is very subjective. I’ve watched my own children be scored by judges who really missed what they were seeing. I guess that’s part of the game. We can’t do anything about it. GO LONDON 2012!!!!!
Well, you have been fooled by the American commentators. We heard about creepy news network controversy right? So I am not surprised. Thank God I watched live in the audience. My sis watched from TV, and she said they mentioned about the unique skills and the perfect landings.
Instead of complaining about 2008 olympics, just go visit China. It was breathtakingly mesmerizing. I feel like I am coming back from heaven. Ah China my beloved motherland!
The issue isn’t WHO wins, but whether the win was fairly earned. The U.S., Russia, Romania, and many others could have put in a bunch of 14 year olds, but didn’t.
According to an AP story, “younger gymnasts are considered to have an advantage because they are more flexible and are likely to have an easier time doing the tough skills the sport requires. They also aren’t as likely to have a history of injuries or fear of failure.”
I am not saying the rule is a good one, only that the rules must be applied to everyone. If not, then let’s do away with all the doping and performance enhancement rules and let everyone do want they want.
Remember, there are gymnasts who have spent a lifetime to compete here (and may never get another chance). Think of the fourth place winners who played by the rules and could have won a medal.
First of all to caroline-learn how to type and spell. It is very annoying when you post something for all to read and it makes you look like someone who does not care how others see you!
Second of all- several of the Chinese girls look very young. There should be an investigation. Is it true that in China they take your conception date as the birth date as opposed to your actual birth date? Something to think about.
Third of all-the judges should not be judging their own country. If China was on the mat to perform then another country judge should step in. Simple as that. This way there is no favoritism.
If there is cheating going on by China, (or any other country) then they should be stripped of their medals for that sport and banned from any Olympics for four years.
I for one have no desire to go to China. I like my life and I’m happy to be in a country where you can speak your mind and have free will to do things as you wish!
GO USA!!!!!!!
Well, I’m of course, Chinese kid in the us. Caroline is really sadly wrong. There is proof that they are under aged, a lot of proof, but the Chinese government has banned people from accessing it. I like China, not the government,but the people. The real reason the IOC is being such a fucking pussy is because china has home filed advantage. They are hosting the Olympics,and if they lost their medals, they would be disgraced for ever.
To Sue:
Judges don’t judge their own country. That’s one of the rules so there is no favoritism. The commentators often mention that.
BTW, all Chinese girls look young. I think it has something to do with the diet. Most don’t enter puberty until 13 or 14.
To clarify on the judging comment about judging your own country…I agree that it has become unbelievably confusing. As for the person who stated the He’s bar routine was much more difficult than Liukin’s, might I remind you that they both had a start value of 7.7 which is the highest you can have. They also tied for gold and their scores were so tied that it came down to only 3 judges scores that determined which one received the gold. I do not consider this a landslide by any means. Then we have the judging itself. If you have a competitor from your country in the competition, you cannot be a judge. Therefore, judges from the top countries of China, USA, Russia, Romania and other countries who have top gymnastics programs were not judging. The judges were from Australia, New Zealand and other countries who have never produced a single medal winner of any color. The biggest problem is the inexperience of the judges in being able to differentiate between skills with the new scoring system and it effected athletes from EVERY country!
“First of all to caroline-learn how to type and spell.It is very annoying when you post something for all to read and it makes you look like someone who does not care how others see you!I like my life and I’m happy to be in a country where you can speak your mind and have free will to do things as you wish!”
To Sarasota,
It’s not just about looks.
Just like you think the Chinese gymnasts look young, you assume that they are underage. Caroline typed some words wrong,you assume that she’s inconsiderate. How do you know that she is not learning to type? Why does she need to care how others see her? She is only writing out whatever she thinks, the free will that you called.
Stay wheverever you are, listening to the same old reportors that you favors. How dare anybody else give you any suggestions and ask you open your mind a little bit.
There is no way that girl is 16…..she still has her baby teeth. She does not even have a form to her body…so say what you want..there is no way she is 16.
What I really wanted to type was that when you don’t take the time to spell correctly it makes you look like an idiot. Capitalizing the first letter in the sentence is nice too. It means that you are not lazy and can hold down the shift key. And the last time I checked “America” should be capitalized.
I can open my mind but common courtesy goes a long way!!!!!
How sad that people in this country can condemn a person for trying to better another. Get real!
The issue here is whether China cheated. Which I for one believe that they did! So Sophia, get off of your soap box, take a step back, and relax! This is only a blog not a life and death situation!
I think that it is very disrespectful and grasping at straws for the NBC commentators to accuse the judges of being inexperienced. Further, Valeri Liukin’s comment about the judge not having a gymnast from their country qualifying is irrelevant.
The FIG and IOC didn’t just pick up these judges off the street. These people have to qualify to be a judge. Nastia had errors and so did the He Kexin. The score was close, the tie break was invoked and therefore Nastia lost.
Unfair to this little girl. They should have sorted it out before the Games — the question came up weeks ago. He Kexin looks about a Tanner III (pediatricians use this system to approximate a teenage child’s age), so she’s somewhere between 11-13, even allowing for her near-zero body fat, athleticism and ethnic background. They would have known they had a genius gymnast by the time she was about 6 or 7 at the latest, so she was ready to compete by about age 9, so the first date they gave, January 1 (isn’t that a coincidence for her birthday?) was probably a lie as well. Whatever the outcome, it isn’t fair to these girls who are so talented and worked so hard, and were always gracious to the other competitors. It’s too bad to have this controversy mar such a wonderful two weeks. The Chinese people have done a great job — this is just stinky politics. They should throw out the age limit, get some people who know what they’re doing on the IOC, and just drop the whole 2008 medal issue — it’s too late to do anything respectable about it now.
I’m so sick of hearing “poor little Chinese girl”..He is NO WAY 16 years old..and please stop bringing in the factor of Chinese girls are small..that is all an excuse. The bottom line is she cheated. Her medals should be taken away period. Don’t think the Chinese government didn’t fix this so she could compete. I personally didn’t care for their opening ceremony and the fact that they cheated when they chose the prettier girl and dubbed her voice. The fireworks were ebelished for TV and my biggest complaint..choosing 12 year olds to compete and have them lie about their ages. Rules in the sport are meant to be followed…BY ALL COUNTRIES! To be totally honest, I got sick and tired of China winning everything. I stopped watching after a while. They are a country who lies and cheats to get what they want and I hope that they are never allowed to host another one again..unless that country learns how to play fair..doubt it!!!
i personally don’t know anything about He, but in my opinion, she does look a bit young.
one, asians are naturally small. i would know, i am asian.
and yes, yao ming is tall, but that doesn’t mean one chinese person speaks for all.
and two, china is NOT a country who lies and cheats. they admitted that the little girl who lipsang was a show for us “westerners” so they can be more appreciated. we’re letting our stereotypic minds forget that china is trying to let people know of them, to show us what china has to offer. how dare you insult china. you act as if your country is better. stop belittling others and grow up.
i don’t mean to be crude, but from what i’ve seen in asia, maybe the reason she has missing teeth is because of her financial state. maybe she can’t afford a better dental plan. i’ve been to philippines, since i am filipino, and trust me, i’ve seen far worse than He’s teeth.
personally i think china was a wonderful host. this was my first time actually focusing on the olympics and i’m glad that it was in china.
*my post was directed towards julie.
Proof anyone?
Despite Caroline’s spelling (she might have been in a hurry, who knows), at least she listed evidence- certificates, photos, passports, oh and maybe permission to compete by the IOC(before Americans suddenly figured He is too young after she got the gold).
I have nothing to say if the rebuttal is “Chinese government lies.” It doesn’t grant you credibility if you can’t provide anything more valuable against it.
For those who insists He is *no way* 16, well, so far the only supporting point I’ve read is .. He *looks* young.
A gold medal is a big deal, He won it hard and rightfully. If anyone wants to question her, his/her efforts need to be, at least, equivalent and valid.
Chinese gymnasts have always looked little. I’m not talking about the kids in my class or neighbourhood. Go watch the Athens Olympics, the Sydney Games, the 1984 Games. Videos are there.
He looks indeed smaller than average Chinese girls today(truth is my mom looked even smaller when she was 18 in China’s hungry 70’s), actually the whole team does.
They are on strict diet during training, thus entering puberty several years later. Many former Chinese gymnasts grow quite a few centimetres after they leave the national team.
In Athens a girl won a medal and cried before the camera, saying that since she began training for the Olympics, “I haven’t had a real meal for a whole year.”
Cheng Fei, the biggist girl, is 20, a popular player in China way before the Olympics. Look at the older ads and competitions, she hasn’t changed much really in 3 years. I bet no American would believe she was born in 1988 by her look anyway.
This is a picture of He and Cheng, do you seriously think they are 8 years apart?
http://images.sports.cn/Image/2008/05/24/1344104518.jpg
Controversies are normal, but be reasonable. My assumption is IOC is more professional than any of us here.
I said it before and I’ll say it again!
I have heard on a number of occasions that the Chinese tradition for a “birthday” is when you were conceived not the actual birth. Granted this could vary greatly from one day to the next but they figure it out somehow. This could make a difference in her actual “birthday”.
From what I have heard they only looked at the passport for He. There was no other evidence shown and the IOC accepted it. This IS a major controversy which should be looked in to immediately. And from the looks of it online, it will be! A passport can be tampered with!
If there has been any cheating on any team-the medals for that sport should be stripped and given to the next person in line that competed. That country should also be banned for at least the next four years of competition and not be allowed to sponsor any Olympics in that country.
PERIOD!!!!!
How they look is not the main point. The main point is that there is a trail of public and internal documents that suggest He Kexin is underage. There is also an apparent cover up of those documents, and there is a history of age falsification by China in gymnastics as recently as the 1994 Olympic games. These factors lead one to believe that there is likely some cheating going on that needs to be investigate.
I would like to believe the IOC is a professional as assumed in the last reply, but unfortunately the latest issue of Foreign Policy magazine has an article that suggests they are as corrupt as anyone.
In regards to their not being any investigations until “Now that He Kexin won the gold..” their has been an ongoing age investigation way before the 2008 Olympics, but new evidence has been uncovered which proves she is under the age of 16, thus making this a much more hot topic. This is not about returning a gold medal to the deserving one, but about how the Chinese government covers up her age to get what they want. I agree that they are making it so they can illegally get as many gold medals as possible and will do anything to get them. I do not trust the Chinese government at all.
The age limit is set in place for gymnastics for a reason, it has to do with being more limber and feerless when your 12 or 13, so Its a good thing to have a gymnast be at lease 16 so it is more fair, otherwise, lets have all countries enlist anyone into a gymnastic event regardless of the age.
He Kexin should NOT have a gold medal, her routine was not flawless and I think actually she did not do as well as Nastia, (who was actually born in Russia). I can not wait until the day comes when Nastia is given what is rightfully and legitamitly hers!
ya American adults keep picking on a 16 year old? Pick someone your size ;-)
I don’t know maybe you are 20, and you look 40?????
@amanda
keep on waiting :) LOL
Sue,
I read what you wrote, since you’re so strong about it.. now allow me to explain what you’ve *heard* about Chinese age.
In parts of China, a baby is born one year old(9 month pregnancy counted) and it’s more common in the south. People who do this usually count with the lunar calendar. It depends on different local pactices, ethnic groups and religions. It’s never something to be written down or taken officially.
This is NOT an official practise and our documents(passport, ID, residence permits, etc) record our EXACT birthday and year. Lunar age is simply meaningless here.
Excuse me but it’s really silly if you truly believe China reports to IOC with He’s lunar age, hasn’t EVERYONE here said China presented the girls’ passports? It was not like He’s mom told IOC He is 16 by a mother’s standard.
I have an idea just how little people know about China. Sometimes I am still shocked…..
Amanda,
Seriously who is actually uncovering any evidence here? I’ve been told repeatedly that “someone has solid evidence He’s underage” and then everybody starts accusing her. Already.
I’m totally intrigued by that mysterious new evidence and that mysterious someone(who spoke out and vanished in the digital blackhole of online information) now. But it always ended up as “He just looks too small”. Solid as stone huh.
(At least I gave a picture and asked questions?)
Oh and be realistic. what makes this a “much more hot topic” is the gold medal. She’s been competing all these years and where was every angry one back then?
Pre-Olympic investigations had to be closed before anyone could enter the games, as she said in the press conference: “I wouldn’t be here if I were not 16.” and she expressed clearly “I’m pretty sure how old I am.”
I’d rather believe the Chinese government than a thousand over-excited Americans.
And He’s routine didn’t have to be “flawless” to get the gold. She was the best on the field and that’s all that mattered.
The point being, it doesn’t matter what you think, nor what I think. I personally think the girl ranking 3rd did best, and she received best and loudest on-site applause, who cares about what we think?
As for whether He deserves the gold, I don’t think it’s up to just any TV viewer.
The committee have professional, experienced, and well-trained eyes. The only way they should be questioned is by ediquately professional questions.
———————-
At the end of the day, isn’t it simple that if real proof has been offered, given the power, the influence and resources, how would a country like the US settle with the result? At least not Nastia’s father given previous experiences.
Is it because of Liukin’s worries about China’s homefield advantage?
Well China reported unfair scoring many times to the IOC in previous Olympics, all hosted in other countries obviously.
We got three results: requests rejected; requests accpeted and investigated, but scores unchanged; objections accepted, investigated and proven true, Chinese athletes actually won, the faulted judge was fired, but nothing could be changed by then.
Truth is China has never get back a deserved gold, even when the IOC admitted their mistake.
Chinese players still have that kind of faith after times and times of unfair results, why on earth would Americans be so low-profile?
BTW we can tell Liukin was a Russian name. Chinese actually know quite a lot about Russia and the world.
She was raised and trained in the US since 3, plus she represented the United States of America, which makes her American.
Hey Knights-
Us “American adults” are picking on the Chinese government for being deceitful and not telling the truth about the age of one of their Olmypic contenders. She is just a minor (whether she is 12 or 16) and really has no say in the matter. It is the adults who created this deception and should be punished as well.
Maybe if she WAS 16 she would be closer to an adult size but alas she is not! She is not the one we are picking on. She is just the one caught in the middle of this international debacle.
It will come out that she is under age and the penalites will be handed out. I just hope it is sooner rahter than later!
Maybe they should have an age limit to post on this blog?!
As I said Sue, keep on waiting ;)
do a search on ioc and underage and see what the latest reports say :P
Thanks Wei! After doing a google search, I found that there has been a request by the IOC this past Friday to do an investigation into the ages of several Chinese athletes.
This will get very interesting!!
Those chinese athletes are totally 16. They looked just like my cousins when they were 16 and they look just like the japanese gymnasts but nobody is complaining about Japan bc they didn’t beat us.
Most of those girls were about the same height as Nastia Liukin and she’s 19!!! Obviously all gymnasts are tiny because you can’t become a world-class gymnast UNLESS you are tiny.
I totally love how all these china-bashers are stating “allegations” like they’re “facts”. I’ve read more than ones that the chinese athletes were still “losing their baby teeth”. Really? Because I watched the olympics too! I saw some crooked teeth but I didn’t see any MISSING teeth.
I know tons of people think there are “documents” online, namely a chinese newspaper, that states the girls are younger. Ok, seriously. Newspapers are never wrong? I’ve caught more NBC mistakes this past two weeks than most people will ever know.
And do you people HONESTLY think that if the Chinese government is intentionally misrepresenting the gymnasts’ age, they’d just….conveniently leave contradictory, easily accessible information online? You people HONESTLY want me to believe that the chinese government, if it really wanted to, can’t even keep a newspaper from reporting the gymnasts’ “real” age? And that the “REAL” facts on the gymnasts age is publicly available even when both the gymnasts and their passpors say otherwise? Because we all KNOW that the internet is never wrong but the passport and the word of the athletes themselves are ALWAYS wrong (because they’re chinese).
The IOC will briefly look into the age thing, find documents that the girls are 16 or older, and then let the subject drop. The only reason they’re even bothering is because a CERTAIN group of americans (morons) are complaining like somebody kicked their dog. Nobody else in the rest of the world, as well as the american athletes have a problem themselves. I find it ironic that us couch potatoes have so much sway.
btw. Being young DOES give you an advantage in gymnastics. But that’s only if you’re comparining a 40 year old athlete against a teen.
Even if the chinese athletes were 14 instead of 16, it really doesn’t have much of a difference in comparison to a 16 year old.
and btw, i DO believe they’re 16. They have thin narrow girl hips, just like mine and i’m 24. And it’s just like how supermodels can be super tall and yet super skinny. That’s just the way they’re supposed to be.
clearly, babygate happened because
hekexin won gold, and USA won silver.
how sad…
Well “m”, if being young DOES give you an advantage in gymnastics then you must be an expert in it! Wow, we have an expert among us! Being 40 myself, I will not be competing in any tournaments but the expert “m” might be a judge. Congrats “m”!
Then if you are 24 with thin narrow hips, are you anorexic too?! Obviously you do not know the differences between a 14 year old and a 16 year old. Major development happens in those two years in a womans body. And were there not athletes in other sports at the Olympics who were-dare I say it?-over 30? Oh my gosh! They are ancient and should be put in the nursing home right now!!!
And models are not “supposed” to be that way. They CHOOSE to be that way.
babygate is a proper term here.
Tell me then, why did the IOC impose age restrictions in the first place? Do you know something that they don’t know?
found on some tombstones 100 years later…
Them girls were underaged I tell you…
;)
The 2nd investigation brought by USOC exec Jim Schurr has again exhonorated He Kexin, Jiang Yuyuan, Yang Yilin:
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/sports/chinese+gymnast+declared+old+enough/2484522