See Global Voices special coverage page on the South Ossetia crisis.
Below are a few posts from bloggers who are currently in Tbilisi, Georgia.
LJ user merienn wrote this (RUS) from Tbilisi on Aug. 11 and 12:
At 6 AM today, Marina called, scared to death: there was an explosion, and their windows were nearly smashed over at Gldani. Turned out the radars […] that serve the international airport were being bombed.
Yesterday, Khelvachauri, a suburb of Batumi, was bombed, Sandro is staying there with grandfather and grandmother and doesn't want to go to the village to my parents.
Khatuna and I were walking with kids [at the park], it's almost empty, and we took them to McDonalds' - banned in peaceful times, it seems so attractive in the time of war.
Yesterday, crowds of people were marching all over the city with flags, chanting “Sakartvelo” - Mishka didn't understand what was going on.
- There's war now, and we are being bombed, and these people are demanding to stop all this.
- And who's doing the bombing? - Mishka the Ant asked, [his eyes huge with surprise].I didn't tell him who was bombing us.
- Let them throw these bombs on themselves, I hate them, - Mishka got angry in a funny way.
Just a week ago we were chatting about some sweet trifles - where they do French manicure better, and where I put that swimming suit, and how to train your husband to hang his wet towel on the rope.
Now we are breaking our heads, [trying to figure out] how to get to Batumi with kids and avoid being shot at, where a safer place to take shelter is, who said what the UN Security Council, whether it is true that people got killed in Poti.
There's no panic. […] There was shock on the first day, and then it started feeling as if we've been living like this for a hundred years. Crowds of people are donating blood. We knew that this is how it would be. […]
We are not leaving anywhere. [Because] all they do is wait for us all to leave.
***
[…] There is no Russophobia whatsoever - I've already said more than once that we have very clear boundaries separating the notions of the Russian state and the relations between the peoples. […]
I'll pack a backpack, just in case - warm clothes, water, documents. Refugees have taught us so - the rest doesn't matter.
Though it is unclear where we'll be forced to go - there's not a single place in my country that's inaccessible for the brave fighter jets.
They bombed Gori once more. Bombed Kakhetia.
Sites hosted in Georgia have been hacked, there's no opportunity to access Russian sites, so LJ remains my only platform to keep in touch with the world. […]
***
[…] We've decided not to go yet because it is dangerous. At home, the walls [of a house] help. […]
Value all that you have. Value the fact that you are alive and healthy, that you can watch a movie instead of the news, that you can buy a ticket and go anyplace you like. […]
***
I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow morning. Maybe tanks will enter the city. Mishka is asleep, my little boy, he kept turning around, asking: They aren't bombing Batumi, are they? He misses his brother. I shouldn't have told him yesterday. Though this way he is prepared, at least.
All hope for Sarkozy, maybe he'll convince them - but this is unlikely, too, no one is going to back out at this point - they'll be eating us hot.
Tbilisi-based LJ user dzvirpaso wrote this (RUS) on Aug. 11:
I've just called Ukraine's consul in Georgia, I know him well. He said that he and his family (wife and two children) are here. He said that those who wanted to leave were leaving, but assured me that the situation was stable. I asked whether he thinks if it would be better to leave or not, and he replied that there's no need to at this point, that everything is stable and will soon be over. If something happens, he will definitely call me.
LJ user oleg_panfilov reports (RUS) on the situation in Tbilisi this night:
I've just had a ride around the city - everything is quiet and calm. People are discussing the situation on the phones and that's why it's been impossible to reach friends in the past two or three hours. Some people manage to get through [to my number], ask me what to do, and then the phone goes silent again.
There is panic, of course, but for now only in conversations and discussions. Though there are those who've decided to leave already - mainly to Eastern Georgia, towards Azerbaijan.
I can't get rid of the thought that these people do not want to greet the occupational troops with flowers and wine - even though there's such an effort being done for them, all the demands for Saakashvili to escape… […]
In another post, oleg_panfilov adds (RUS):
[…] Tomorrow there'll be plenty of politics.
Forgot to write that Eka Zguladze, deputy minister of foreign affairs of Georgia, has confirmed to me that tomorrow, in the middle of the day, presidents of Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland and Ukraine are expected to arrive in Tbilisi.
Send this by E-mail
[...] things seem to be quiet in Tbilisi for now, North Ossetian blogger Alan Tskhurbaev - LJ user alan_tskhurbaev wrote this on Aug. 11 [...]
I am an American. I have a very close friend in Tbilisi and I am in constant communication. I was talking to him online and then he typed that he heard bombs and so I called him on the phone and he was in the bathroom, hiding and terrified, he lives east of the river and is near where the airport was bombed. I have sent what I hope is enough money for him to leave but hope that I am not sending him into his death by giving him means to escape the city. He wants to get to Telavi, but I do not know if it is possible…the Russians are getting closer to the capitol and I fear that they are intending to take Georgia. I believe that the Russians have been arming and training the people of the break away areas for a long time and I also believe that the Russians provoked these people to fight Georgia. Russia has been waiting for Georgia to fight the breakaway areas so that they will have what they call a “legitamat” excuse to take back the land of Georgia that they lost. Russia seems to be opportunists that play on the freedoms of those who are weak.
What Georgian expected in this situation?May be flowers?They are modern fascists,who killed civilians,kids,elderly people in South Ossetia.Western “so called” free media,show georgian`s point of view and not even single reportage about people from Ossetia.Why Saakashvili talks to georgians in English,may be he forgot native language?Why tv,radio,newspapers do not tell story when geogrian tank run over elderly woman with her kids?Why tv don`t tell story when georgians sealed in church around 30 civilians and set fire,burned them alive?Where is the story when georgians killed wounded family in their home?I hate that many georgians who do not support criminal Saakashvili`s regime, have to suffer because of him.
It has been odd to see conflicting reports in the Western press about how this situation sarted.
And who do you suppose is telling the stories of elderly people and children being run over by Georgian tanks and civilians being burned alive in sealed churches? Pravda?
There is an obvious propaganda war being fought here, on both sides, and rousing statements and ‘facts’ should all be treated as such until international observers or some other party can verify them, if the opportunity ever comes about.
I don’t think Georgia is blameless here but let’s not forget that all else aside, Russia has invaded a sovereign country after doing things like shooting down Georgian aircraft over Georgian airspace, and then lying about it even when it was caught on camera and verified by the UN.
There are no stories about such things because it is a war zone and to the out side world all we have to make up our opinions is what they tell us. If peace is reached then some of those things might come out but don’t forget that not only Georgia could be an aggressor but is also clearly a victim. Russia has no right in entering the country or even bombing it for that matter. Georgia and South Ossetia have been the ones in dispute. If it had been purely South Ossetian Troops moving into Georgia then ok that’s what a war is but the fact that Russia has entered Georgia when they have tried to call for a cease fire shows that there are ulterior motives other than “peace keeping” and if Russia had been peace keeping then why not follow with requests to the UN to step in. All you hear is Russia defending their actions and condemning those of Georgia. They are not requesting outside help. Even if they knew it would be denied they should try because it was not just Russia who apposed Georgian acceptance to NATO but Germany and France were also weary of the unresolved issues of South Ossetia and Abkahazia.
When my I arrived in Tbilisi last year after the Russian embargo on Geogian wines and Georgians had been kicked out of Russia, I was amazed to see very patriotic (and very anti-Russia) Georgians differentiating between the actions of a government and its ethnic people in Georgia. I was really heartened to read Merienn’s comment that there is no Russophobia at the moment in Tbilisi. I truly hope that it stays that way.
I’ve also been in touch by email and sms with friends in Tbilisi. They are all staying, for now.
It’s been hard to find updated and accurate news, but I’m not optimistic in this ending quickly.
Georgians killed so many citizens of Osetia (most of them were Russians) that any neighbor now is damning Saakashvilly! Now Abkhasians are ready to kick Georgians ass for this attack!
Is there really no reporters in S Osetia??? A bull shit! They may not tell the truth by western news! Becaose if they will - everybody watch at falsity, elastic conscience and violence of georgians troops! Russian`s and former soviet`s mass media can show the real picture of that events! Ask for any Osetian or Abkhasian or Armenian or other Caucasian! Nobody supports Georgia… Why is that…? Because nobody approve georgians actions and “US+NATO+Georgian” regime…
USA did a huge mistakes to bomb Yugoslavia,establish fascists regime in Georgia,bring to power criminals in Ukraine like Yuschenko and prime minister Timoshenko, starting war in Iraq.Why USA troops in Iraq if weapon of mass distraction was not found?Why USA bombed Yugoslavia,killing civilians and destroy infrastructure?Why USA kept silence when Saakashvili killed prime minister Jvania and destroyed opposition?What USA and NATO troops doing in Ukraine and Georgia?What about Osama?Looks like nobody wants to catch him.
USA needs war in Europe like never before because very bad economic situation which getting worse very fast,dollar is falling down,inflation,small businesses closing,real estate crisis.China and Russia are biggest creditors of USA.What will happen if China and Russia will decide to pull out their money from US?The only hope that Barak Obama will be the next President of USA,I think he has a change US for better,otherwise with candidate McCain world will be involved in World War III.
Whether the Georgian military have committed atrocities against Osetia or not, it cannot be denied that the conflict was originally between a soverign state (Georgia) and a region within attempting to breakaway (S Osetia). While there are a large number of people within S Osetia whom have strong ties to Russia and may also hold Russian passports, the move by Russia to advance military forces into another country’s sovereign territory cannot be seen as a legal action in any interpretation of the UN charter, or by any agreed international norms of conduct between states. This is really true when Russia has went outside the zone of conflict of Osetia, and attacked civilian targets in Tbilisi.
With the cease-fire now in effect, the decision is now up to Russia upon how it wants to end the conflict, lets just hope there’s no more blood.
…funny, I cant help wondering if Russia would of been audacious enough to defy international law if there wasn’t a trend in defying it set by the US over the years.
Oh yea, poor people of Tbilisу they are scared that they could get bombed. What about people of Osetia? They have got bombed and about 2000 of them (2% of the population) are dead now. May be Georgian people should have thought what they were doing when they elected such a president and agreed to his policy
My best friend is georgian. He’s a very good guy. And I believe that Georgian people are so kind ahd have hospitality. I wish the best for them.
Yikes! What a mess!
Watching western media and Russian media is like looking at two sides of a coin or at night and day!
The truth lies somewhere in between.
Maybe peace can be found with Russia and USA for the good of the whole world. We should help each other and settle disputes by talking and comming to understanding.
THIS MADDNESS MUST STOP…REGARDLESS.
please
My prayers go out to the people of South Ossetia, the young, the old, May Peace find each of you. To those who are leaving for safety’s sake, I wish you safe travels. For those who are staying, I wish you safe harbour and security in your towns cities and homes.As an American from Seattle, Washington it is the fabric of my diverse city to wish for peace and harmony;I send from my city to each and every one of you. Stephen
[...] has a posted a page with blogs about South Ossetia. On Global Voices, several bloggers describe life in Tbilisi over the past few [...]
I am an American, and haven’t been outside of the states. But I can tell those who live in Georgia that they have the full backing of the United States, not only from what they see our gov’t. say but the people are behind them as well. Russia is controlled by a prime minister who is a thug who wishes to regain the former territory of the soviet union, and who would also like to see a return to the old communist ways I’m sure. He is making it happen under the guise of a ‘russian federation’. The European Union seems to have given a rather weak response to the russian invasion, which goes along with every major diplomatic decision they have made in the last 140 years. Stand tall my friends, if I could be there I would be in the trenches fighting them side by side with you. Sometimes democracy has to be paid for with blood, brothers-in-arms.
I am from the South of Russia. I really respect the opinion of people from other countries, but let me tell something to you. Unfortunately you get very few information for mass media in your countries. Besides Georgian point of view or to be more exactly the Saakashvilly’s point of view is expressed more often than the position of Russia.
At first, Russia has never attacked Georgia and threatened its sovereignty and has no reasons for doing it. Besides Russia did not enter the territory of Georgia. There were only Russian peacemakers. Maybe someone does not know but the duty of Russian peacemakers was to avoid military actions between Georgia and South Osetia according the mandate of UN. And of course when peacemakers saw that the civilians of South Osetia were attacked they began to protect them. Moreover Russian peacemakers were also attacked. And if Russia did not react the Georgian army would kill not 2000 people but all the 120 000 people, the whole population of South Osetia. Moreover Russia really helps victims of attacks a lot, provides them with medicine, food, water, clothes etc.
Second, who says about telling stories about victims by newspapers? We do not just read “stories” about dead and injured people? We see that on TV! Real reports! We hear the words of people who lost homes and families! And that is really horrible!!
Third, again maybe the rest of the world does not know but some hours ago Russian peacemakers found the plan of military actions of Georgia against South Ocetia called “clear field”. That proves that the actions of Georgian forces were planned earlier.
Finally, we in Russia realize that the policy of Saakashvili does not get the approval among. Georgian people and his actions does not express the interests of his people. His actions are criminal. Analyzing Saakashvili’s policy he can be compared only with a monkey with a grenade!!!
This conflict should come as no surprise. When NATO started bombing Serbia, the Archbishop of Belgrade mentioned something to the effect that “NATO was the Beast of the Apocalypse”…..thus, the expansion of the EU eastward including Turkey (the ancient Roman provinces of Pontus Euxinus-Bythinia, Galatia, Capadocia-which bordered with the ancient Parthian Empire; and which covers part of modern Georgia’s Black Sea coast, etc.. Also the conflict in Iraq (the province of Mesopotamia under Rome), fits perfectly into this jigsaw puzzle, of Rome’s (European Union & U.S.), expanding eastward. Thus, for the apocalyptic dreams of King Nebuchanezzar of Babylon, as interpreted by the prophet Daniel to be fulfilled (Daniel Chapter 2), the EU (modern Rome) naturally must eventually control modern Turkey, and parts of the western Caucasus, passing through Mesopotamia, Syria and into Judea, etc., all parts of the Roman Empire during the times of Marcus Ulpius Traianus……
I hope this serves to clear out, some of these doubts about all this hullaballoo out there in the Caucausus.
Point of view from the US…..It is one thing for Mother Russia to assist a region that wishes to “break away” from a neighboring country and ally with them. It is entirely another thing for them to continue to pursue the deposition of a sovereign country’s leader (openly announced at the UN by the Russian ambassador)!
Russia is growing emboldened by the rapid increase in revenue from its oil sales and is “feeling its oats” and is trying to re-establish itself as a DOMINANT country throughout the region. Ukraine is next!!! With regards to previous postings, ALL countries (US/Russia (USSR)/China/Japan/Great Britain et al) are guilty of violating “international law” with regards to meddling in international affairs and the affairs of the governments of foreign countries. Therefore, each aggression should be dealt with accordingly. However, since the UN is a eunuch body, then there is no venue to judge foreign nations (esp. the ones with veto power in the UN security council). As far as who the new leader of the US might be and his impact on the world at large, Obama is scary because is “compassion” and propensity to “talk things out” and wanting to have us al “just get along” is a juvenile outlook to world politics and will only embolden countries like Iran, North Korea, China, Russia to push their weight around without any checks and balances.
What we have here people is a complete imbalance, or at the very least, a perceived imbalance of power and countries are feeling “froggy” (they feel they can jump whenever they wish) without consequences
Personally as an American, I stand beside the Georgian people in this situation. Russia has had a track record over almost the past 100 years of committing atrocities upon other countries (let alone their own people). Their history is full of mass murder on scales of hundreds of thousands at a time dating back to the Revolution that brought Lennon to power, Stalin in the 1940s - 1950s, Afghan War in the 1980’s and now Georgia whom only crime was to want acceptance into NATO.
Personally I wish there was a way to volunteer to fight along side them. As Saakashvili stated, Democracy is stronger than any bomb, tank or artillery shell that the Russians could throw at them.
As the previous bloggers have stated before, I myself an African American stand with the people from Georgia as they go through this dark period. I want to send my prayers and blessings and hope that this cease-fire agreement will take hold and create immediate peace between both nations, although death and animosity still lingers in the air. I also want to as a young African American, apologize for the feeling of betrayal and neglect for our response through these troubling times. You know people talk about Russia’s history and “track record” on how it treats fellow man along with there own people. Some would say that Russia has a dark past. Might I add though…..DONT WE ALL! The American Government has no right to talk about someone and there history to human rights, when then this country till this day is racially divided and socially torn between different religious, racial, economical, and political parties. You can’t for once talk down on Russia for there past when The United States has such a dark history. A history of intrusion, false accusations, hate, and unjust to there own Americans as well as other nations. I for one have seen it first hand. How can the American government talk to another nations leader in a chastising manner about nuclear weapons and the US government is the one who opened up Pandora’s box. I mean we don’t even acknowledge the event that took place on Aug. 6th 1945. Even when there are still survivors alive this present day. To all those Georgians that have the feeling of betrayal done by the U.S, I apologize on my country’s behalf. For my whole life and from my experiences and the visions that are embedded in my mind, along with the stories of unjust and demoralizing events that have taken place. I understand the betrayal that you feel, and my prayers and blessings go out to The people of Georgia, Russia, Iraq, and Darfur. The American Gov. has failed us all. We are all equal, no matter ethnicity or your religious background. The respect we must have for one another is automatically mutual, which is something that the Americans who have been miss-guiding us don’t understand. One love to all, and may all who read sleep in peace without fear.
All these stories was told by South Ossetia`s people,but here, in US we probably never ever will hear the truth,because for last years people of US were foolish by mass media about real situation in Ossetia,Afghanistan and Iraq.Did you notice that there is no reportage and interview from ossetian`s people?Why?
Why people do not have information about real situation in Iraq?American citizens,young,healthy,full of life people, come home in a caskets.What they died for?But don`t tell me about establishing democracy in Iraq,that`s a bull shit.Even people who came home from Iraq alive, committing suicide in huge numbers.
P.S.By the way Stalin(Djugashvili),who killed millions people in Russia was georgian.
Evetything I see clear now - is that americam people know nothing about this conflict… But most of them just want to blame Russia by any chance, using any not proven reason…
The negation of facts - is right an americans pisition…
standart phrase: “I am an American, and haven’t been outside of the states…” - absurd! How can you tell us something if you even don`t know what happens in your country??? just to repeat nonsense???
Greg wrote: “Obama is scary because is “compassion” and propensity to “talk things out” and wanting to have us al “just get along” is a juvenile outlook to world politics and will only embolden countries like Iran, North Korea, China, Russia to push their weight around without any checks and balances…” - Greg youre right. America must dominate everywhere… Afganisran, Iran, Iraq, Serbia, Yugoslavia, South Korea, China, Cuba, Latvia, Estonia, Ukraine, Georgia… everywhere - this is the only way YOU (Americans) can be satisfied… )))
USA - is aiming to become worli gendarme bulldog that says to everybody how to live properly in theirs own territory… PROPERLY - means according to the “right USA`s recommendation”. Hey! Stup teaching us! Just try to live without interfering in other countries! Keep your so called “democracy implandation” over the world! Stop “cloning” the same people as you (because Americans is NOT the best pattern for cloning). All the people are different and nobody must oppose to that!
[...] Here, for example, they’ve gathered some posts by bloggers in Tbilisi, Georgia. [...]
Just to tell everyone: anything that goes beyond and is out of reach of ordinary peoples mind is the policy with its hidden pitfalls, ins and outs and not much of them is clear to understand. What is happening wright now or something that has already affected our lives in the past is what we can take with us to pass it thourgh the comming generations, which to my believe will be living in different world. The lives of victims taken by tragedy in South Osetia will be long remembarance for Osetians and no one can or have a brutal right to convince them that these people died because of separatis regime was rulling in Osetia. What matters is that the world today has nothing more to offer other than to start hostility for making nations even so small as Osetia to believe that they are a part of this world (Serbia, Irak are clear examples). May be more prudent is to start thinking of the consequences long before stepping towards a clear aggression for which ever reason it can be judged by politicians. Consequences are what stays for long life in the minds of people, that can not be ruled by anyone even by most smart politicians in the world interpreting the invasion or aggression or shoottng bombs over the sleeping city as something that helps to restore territorial integrity. It is a boolshit, if you will and seek to live in piece with others it is no time for war of anykind, piece even brough by war is like a water that can be kept but it runs from you once it finds a way to go.
Tbilisi started to receive calls from people in Gori, Zugdidi and Poti (mostly Gori) telling the horrible stories of crimes being commited by Russian army in these cities. Massive looting, concentration camps, genocide of Georgian civilian population, people being killed and kidnapped just because they are Georgians, houses burned, goods taken away… People cry and ask for help. Nobody can help because of the Medvedev’s ‘order’ to eliminate everybody on the first sign of resistance. While with one hand having signed the ceasefire agreement, with the other Russia is destroying Georgian population. The world is letting second Chechnya happen. How can Russian government dare to talk about genocide of Ossetian people when only a third of them lived in South Ossetia during the last 15 years. The reast live in Georgia proper or in Russia. The ones in Georgia live peacefully like regular Georgian citizens never being discriminated or otherwise mistreated on ehtnic basis. My boyfriend is Ossetian living and working in Tbilisi. Never was he treated badly by anyone. Those who chose to stay in South Ossetia and become Russian citizens (illegaly by the way) are only a small part of eithnic Ossetians living in Georgia - most of them fled to Russia now and are there alive. What genocide is Russia talking about? The figure of 2,000 dead includes Russian occupational military, their soldiers who are not welcomed here. Who now are killing Georgian women and men. It’s our land!!!!! People wake up and say your word until it’s too late!!!!
We had no choice
Leaders in the Caucasus must stop flexing military muscle and develop the grounds for lasting peace
All comments (15)
* Mikhail Gorbachev
* The Guardian,
* Wednesday August 13 2008
* Article history
The past week’s events in South Ossetia are bound to shock and pain anyone. Already, thousands of people have died, tens of thousands have been turned into refugees, and towns and villages lie in ruins. Nothing can justify this loss of life and destruction. It is a warning to all.
The roots of this tragedy lie in the decision of Georgia’s separatist leaders in 1991 to abolish South Ossetian autonomy. Each time successive Georgian leaders tried to impose their will by force - both in South Ossetia and in Abkhazia, where the issues of autonomy are similar - it only made the situation worse.
Nevertheless, it was still possible to find a political solution. Clearly, the only way to solve the South Ossetian problem on that basis is through peaceful means. The Georgian leadership flouted this key principle.
What happened on the night of August 7 is beyond comprehension. The Georgian military attacked the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali with multiple rocket launchers designed to devastate large areas. Russia had to respond. To accuse it of aggression against “small, defenceless Georgia” is not just hypocritical but shows a lack of humanity.
The Georgian leadership could do this only with the perceived support and encouragement of a much more powerful force. Georgian armed forces were trained by hundreds of US instructors, and its sophisticated military equipment was bought in a number of countries. This, coupled with the promise of Nato membership, emboldened Georgian leaders.
Now that the military assault has been routed, both the Georgian government and its supporters should rethink their position. When the problems of South Ossetia and Abkhazia first flared up, I proposed that they be settled through a federation that would grant broad autonomy to the two republics. This idea was dismissed, particularly by the Georgians. Attitudes gradually shifted, but after last week it will be much more difficult to strike a deal even on such a basis.
Small nations of the Caucasus do have a history of living together. It has been demonstrated that a lasting peace is possible, that tolerance and cooperation can create conditions for normal life and development. Nothing is more important. The region’s political leaders need to realise this. Instead of flexing military muscle, they should devote their efforts to building the groundwork for durable peace.
Over the past few days, some western nations have taken positions, particularly in the UN security council, that have been far from balanced. As a result, the security council was not able to act effectively from the very start of this conflict. By declaring the Caucasus, a region that is thousands of miles from the American continent, a sphere of its “national interest”, the US made a serious blunder. Of course, peace in the Caucasus is in everyone’s interest. But it is simply common sense to recognise that Russia is rooted there by common geography and centuries of history. Russia is not seeking territorial expansion, but it has legitimate interests in this region.
The international community’s long-term aim could be to create a sub-regional system of security and cooperation that would make any provocation, and the very possibility of crises such as this one, impossible. Building this type of system would be challenging and could only be accomplished with the cooperation of the region’s countries themselves. Nations outside the region could perhaps help, too - but only if they take a fair and objective stance. A lesson from recent events is that geopolitical games are dangerous anywhere, not just in the Caucasus.
· Mikhail Gorbachev was the last president of the Soviet Union; he was awarded the Nobel peace prize in 1990
© Washington Post
In response to Stefan
Stephan i hope you are not someone who supports the American government actions in any way (ie war in Iraq, Afghanistan or their support of tyrants in South America)
Otherwise your accusations of Russian lies would smack of extreme hypocracy. The American authorities wrote the
book on lying to start wars and have funded more fascist murdering states in South America than Is posible to mention here. Now it looks like they are doing the same thing in Europe.
We are not stupid! The proven lies that The US used to start the war in Iraq ( leading to the deaths of a million people) are still fresh in our minds. So, if you are a supporter of the US government please give it a few more years before you start moralizing about the actions of others around the world. At least then it will only make our stomachs churn rather than making us physically sick.
Ofcourse not everything Russia has said will be true, but they are being outlied on a massive scale by the Georgian govt. and western media for whom it does not seem to matter that Georgia started this conflict or the fact that around 2000 people (many Russian) were killed when they bombed South Osetia.
Not everything that Russia does is wrong. They, along with every other country in the world have the right to defend themselves when attacked.
And for those who have sympathy for Saakashvilli, just remember this is a man who sent police out to beat up and tear gas 50,000 of his own people who were conducting a peaceful demo against him (look it up Nov 2007). He throws people who oppse him in jail and has been repeatedly accused of corruption by fellow politicians in Georgia. He is not a nice man.
(Oh, and Stefan apologies in advance if you are not a supporter US policies around the world)
To Ian Mortimer; Mr. Mortimer; I do not support this government, I never have endorsed the policies of this president or any other.My only concern is for the peace and humanity of this planet. I may be an American by birth, but not by choice. I do not consider myself to be an adherent of this governments foreign policies nor its treatment of other peoples,governments. I am very well aware,Mr. Mortimer of the lies this government spews to the world and indeed its own people since this wretched country began.
No matter how much you all like to pretend that Georgians are the blame in all of this and you’re not geedy about your motherlands imperialistic intentions towards it’s ex soviet territories, sooner or later you’ll have to own up to your governments dirty deeds; as the actual and true stories of ethnic clensing pure in by actual human rights observers regarding true Russian military autrocities against the Georgians in Georgia. And as secretary of state said early today we’re not living in 1964 anymore where you can roll up. Your tanks and improvise a regime change the way mr Putin wants to.
It’s time for Georgia to cut its losses and just GIVE Russia both South Ossetia and Abkhazia! Oh, yeah, I know - those regions want their “independence”. Yeah, right…. Like Russia is going to let them be independent… what a laugh.
Georgia, this is what you need to do: abandon South Ossetia and Abkhazia to the hell of Russian domination if that’s what they want (and even if it’s not), let Russia have the headache of Ossetian and Abkhazian separatism- they’ll make a nice “bouquet” for Russia together with Chechnya… not to mention the impending crises in Russia’s eastern regions.
Then secure the Georgian borders once and for all, join NATO and the EU and tell Russia where-it-can-go. It’s time finally for Russia to know where its power ends.
As for the West, it’s way, way past time finally to establish energy independence and boycott Russian oil. Stop drenching Russia with the capital it needs to pursue its dreams of empire.
The world needs to LISTEN to the presidents of Poland, Ukraine, Latvia and Estonia who gathered in Tbilisi. They KNOW what they’re talking about more than ANY of the obsessively malcontented westerners who have glommed onto this event as just another chance to rant hysterically against George Bush. Those spoiled westerners never lived under the Russian empire.
As one of my Ukrainian neighbors said to me this morning, “Russia is the world’s number one aggressor.” He reminded me that while people talk about how WWII “started” on September 1, 1939 when Germany invaded Poland, people for some reason forget that the USSR invaded Poland and Finland from the other side on September 15th. The USSR was hand-in-hand with Germany in launching the aggressions that launched WWII.
Russia-vs-Georgia - New website about conflict
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i am english and have been watching the events unfold in Georgia since the start, I dont agree with the attacks by georgia on the breakaway states, but what was surprising is the time it took the Russians to mobilise that many tanks and troops to protect the breakaway states. I have a Georgian friend who lives in Tbilisi and knowing her the ordinary Georgians would not have wanted this conflict.I think if Saakashvili is left in power he will continue to be a loose canon, It is up to the Georgian people to say enough is enough and remove him from power before he destroys the country.The Americans are that fickle they would drop Saakashvili as a friend at the drop of a hat.
Dear Julia,
I respect your opinion. But like many in the world,I wonder if peacekeeping forced (as you said) always bombed civilians. We shared the grievances for the victims on both sides.But you have to learn the difference between military and thiefs. You have to admit the real reason why people in the former Soviet Union don’t want to go back to the early days,why they tried to protect themselves from your beloved country.
Having watched all the news channels on English TV even the Russian channel RT the word Genocide is used a lot by politicians, all the reporters that are out in the conflict not one has reported genocide, what happened in the former Yugoslavia was genocide,the deaths that occured to the civilian population are tragic but happen in any conflict just look at Iraq the amount of civilians that are killed on a daily basis,but has never been classed as genocide,saakashvili is a gangster who is inflicting misery on the Georgian population for no apparent reason than his own gratification.