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	<title>Comments on: Caste Based Communities on Orkut Mirror India&#039;s Splintered Society</title>
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	<link>http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/06/09/caste-based-communities-on-orkut/</link>
	<description>The world is talking. Are you listening?</description>
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		<title>By: AryanSamrat</title>
		<link>http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/06/09/caste-based-communities-on-orkut/comment-page-2/#comment-1766964</link>
		<dc:creator>AryanSamrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Apr 2011 04:09:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=79129#comment-1766964</guid>
		<description>Some how it is always the fault of the Brahmins for everything that goes wrong.
Whenever a Brahmin stands for himself he is always labelled as being castist and unjust.Whereas a certain section has every right to keep on increasing the reservation quota. As if Brahmins were not humans and they dont have a right to belong to their community.

I am sick and tired of Pseudo secularist and now even the Pseudo Brahmins.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some how it is always the fault of the Brahmins for everything that goes wrong.<br />
Whenever a Brahmin stands for himself he is always labelled as being castist and unjust.Whereas a certain section has every right to keep on increasing the reservation quota. As if Brahmins were not humans and they dont have a right to belong to their community.</p>
<p>I am sick and tired of Pseudo secularist and now even the Pseudo Brahmins.</p>
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		<title>By: indian</title>
		<link>http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/06/09/caste-based-communities-on-orkut/comment-page-1/#comment-1574331</link>
		<dc:creator>indian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 07:39:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=79129#comment-1574331</guid>
		<description>I am a little concerned about your attempts to trivialize the caste issue. I am not a loony or fanatic but until you have seen some of the things that go on india in the name of caste, you wont blieve how bad it is.  Visit a typical village, observe how a Dalit gets treated - it is not something relatively benign like getting passed over for promotion. It is as bad as apartheid except that it has been going on for thousands of years</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a little concerned about your attempts to trivialize the caste issue. I am not a loony or fanatic but until you have seen some of the things that go on india in the name of caste, you wont blieve how bad it is.  Visit a typical village, observe how a Dalit gets treated &#8211; it is not something relatively benign like getting passed over for promotion. It is as bad as apartheid except that it has been going on for thousands of years</p>
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		<title>By: Gaurav Mishra</title>
		<link>http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/06/09/caste-based-communities-on-orkut/comment-page-2/#comment-1570089</link>
		<dc:creator>Gaurav Mishra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 22:14:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=79129#comment-1570089</guid>
		<description>@SM.MK: I am (almost) glad you made that comment, because it brings to fore the issues I was talking about. Pointing out that someone is both &quot;Dalit&quot; and &quot;attention-seeking&quot; (as if both go together, or should not go together), comments in &quot;ALL CAPS&quot;; this is the tone of conversation I saw in these Orkut groups and didn&#039;t like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@SM.MK: I am (almost) glad you made that comment, because it brings to fore the issues I was talking about. Pointing out that someone is both &#8220;Dalit&#8221; and &#8220;attention-seeking&#8221; (as if both go together, or should not go together), comments in &#8220;ALL CAPS&#8221;; this is the tone of conversation I saw in these Orkut groups and didn&#8217;t like.</p>
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		<title>By: &#8230;My heart&#8217;s in Accra &#187; links for 2009-06-11</title>
		<link>http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/06/09/caste-based-communities-on-orkut/comment-page-1/#comment-1570071</link>
		<dc:creator>&#8230;My heart&#8217;s in Accra &#187; links for 2009-06-11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=79129#comment-1570071</guid>
		<description>[...] Global Voices Online Caste Based Communities on Orkut Mirror India%u2019s Splintered Society Interesting overview of caste-based social network communities on Orkut, Facebook and other sites by Gaurav Mishra (tags: india culture sociology socialnetworking caste web2.0 sorting) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Global Voices Online Caste Based Communities on Orkut Mirror India%u2019s Splintered Society Interesting overview of caste-based social network communities on Orkut, Facebook and other sites by Gaurav Mishra (tags: india culture sociology socialnetworking caste web2.0 sorting) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: SM.MK</title>
		<link>http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/06/09/caste-based-communities-on-orkut/comment-page-1/#comment-1570036</link>
		<dc:creator>SM.MK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 02:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=79129#comment-1570036</guid>
		<description>WHY NOT WRITE ABOUT THE DALIT WHO LINKED ME WITH YOUR ARTICLE?..HER WEBSITE IS http://creatingnewblog.blogspot.com/

ATLEAST YOU CAN ENSURE THAT SHE GETS PUBLICITY AS SHE HAS BEEN CRAVING FOR IT FROM LONG AND YOUR WRITES WOULD HELP</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WHY NOT WRITE ABOUT THE DALIT WHO LINKED ME WITH YOUR ARTICLE?..HER WEBSITE IS <a href="http://creatingnewblog.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://creatingnewblog.blogspot.com/</a></p>
<p>ATLEAST YOU CAN ENSURE THAT SHE GETS PUBLICITY AS SHE HAS BEEN CRAVING FOR IT FROM LONG AND YOUR WRITES WOULD HELP</p>
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		<title>By: Gaurav Mishra</title>
		<link>http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/06/09/caste-based-communities-on-orkut/comment-page-1/#comment-1570005</link>
		<dc:creator>Gaurav Mishra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:04:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=79129#comment-1570005</guid>
		<description>@Georgia/ Solana: My grand design for the Yahoo! Fellowship included a danah boyd type study for India, but I quickly realized that I liked writing journalistic posts/ articles better than doing academic research. In another life, perhaps.:-)

@Solana: I think that social networking sites attract a certain type of community, as a result of their design/ features. For instance, in the US, MySpace allows for high creativity/ customization and attracts an edgy/ artistic crowd while Facebook focuses on privacy/ community and attracts a more preppy/ professional crowd. In India, too, Orkut&#039;s feature of allowing users to browse through other users&#039; profiles attracts a different kind of community than Facebook. In fact, many Indian users who have moved from Orkut to Facebook (almost) look down on Orkut.

@Anil: Yes, Anil, it&#039;s natural to form groups around shared identities, for the many reasons you have highlighted. I am a little wary of narrow identities that we inherit by birth. For instance,  I prefer to define myself in terms of what I do (marketer, writer, activist) and what I believe in (liberal, atheist), instead of what I was born as. I am OK with defining myself as an Indian, but certainly not as a North Indian (region), or a Bihari (state), or a Brahmin (caste), or (God forbid!) a Gaur Brahmin (sub-caste). I understand that other people need to define themselves more narrowly than I do, and I might be able to respect them in spite of it, but I certainly can&#039;t identify with that sort of thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Georgia/ Solana: My grand design for the Yahoo! Fellowship included a danah boyd type study for India, but I quickly realized that I liked writing journalistic posts/ articles better than doing academic research. In another life, perhaps.:-)</p>
<p>@Solana: I think that social networking sites attract a certain type of community, as a result of their design/ features. For instance, in the US, MySpace allows for high creativity/ customization and attracts an edgy/ artistic crowd while Facebook focuses on privacy/ community and attracts a more preppy/ professional crowd. In India, too, Orkut&#8217;s feature of allowing users to browse through other users&#8217; profiles attracts a different kind of community than Facebook. In fact, many Indian users who have moved from Orkut to Facebook (almost) look down on Orkut.</p>
<p>@Anil: Yes, Anil, it&#8217;s natural to form groups around shared identities, for the many reasons you have highlighted. I am a little wary of narrow identities that we inherit by birth. For instance,  I prefer to define myself in terms of what I do (marketer, writer, activist) and what I believe in (liberal, atheist), instead of what I was born as. I am OK with defining myself as an Indian, but certainly not as a North Indian (region), or a Bihari (state), or a Brahmin (caste), or (God forbid!) a Gaur Brahmin (sub-caste). I understand that other people need to define themselves more narrowly than I do, and I might be able to respect them in spite of it, but I certainly can&#8217;t identify with that sort of thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: Anil</title>
		<link>http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/06/09/caste-based-communities-on-orkut/comment-page-1/#comment-1569973</link>
		<dc:creator>Anil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 06:39:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=79129#comment-1569973</guid>
		<description>Interesting.

The dynamics can be intriguing to say the least.

Diversity ensures that one cannot follow every more and tradition that exists, gravitating people to those who share similar contexts, be it language, race, city, caste, culture, region, ideology and the like. 

All grouping is competitive in nature, a galvanisation to exploit, to avoid exploitation, to protect, to gain protection, to bargain collectively, to resist collectively and the like.

The identity of the individual becomes the identiy of the group.  

Every grouping, be it of any kind, is held together by a culture, whatever that may be, which in turns ensures cohesiveness of the group, invariably gaining an exclusivity that becomes its defining factor to either \distinguish itself\ from the rest or \help retain\ its identity \in the face of the rest.

At a subtle level it is a play of &#039;survival&#039; and &#039;propagation&#039;.

Birds of the same feather will always want to flock together :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting.</p>
<p>The dynamics can be intriguing to say the least.</p>
<p>Diversity ensures that one cannot follow every more and tradition that exists, gravitating people to those who share similar contexts, be it language, race, city, caste, culture, region, ideology and the like. </p>
<p>All grouping is competitive in nature, a galvanisation to exploit, to avoid exploitation, to protect, to gain protection, to bargain collectively, to resist collectively and the like.</p>
<p>The identity of the individual becomes the identiy of the group.  </p>
<p>Every grouping, be it of any kind, is held together by a culture, whatever that may be, which in turns ensures cohesiveness of the group, invariably gaining an exclusivity that becomes its defining factor to either \distinguish itself\ from the rest or \help retain\ its identity \in the face of the rest.</p>
<p>At a subtle level it is a play of &#8216;survival&#8217; and &#8216;propagation&#8217;.</p>
<p>Birds of the same feather will always want to flock together :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Solana Larsen</title>
		<link>http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/06/09/caste-based-communities-on-orkut/comment-page-1/#comment-1569963</link>
		<dc:creator>Solana Larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 04:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=79129#comment-1569963</guid>
		<description>Yeah, it would be cool to compare different country studies. I don&#039;t think there is necessarily anything intrinsic about the tools themselves (Facebook or Orkut) that determine the preference of one social group or another (or is there?). With the exception of poorly functioning software, it&#039;s probably more a case of people simply flocking together with people in their own social networks. I know I used to spend more time on Orkut before all my (cosmopolitan?!) friends moved on to Facebook.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, it would be cool to compare different country studies. I don&#8217;t think there is necessarily anything intrinsic about the tools themselves (Facebook or Orkut) that determine the preference of one social group or another (or is there?). With the exception of poorly functioning software, it&#8217;s probably more a case of people simply flocking together with people in their own social networks. I know I used to spend more time on Orkut before all my (cosmopolitan?!) friends moved on to Facebook.</p>
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		<title>By: Georgia Popplewell</title>
		<link>http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/06/09/caste-based-communities-on-orkut/comment-page-1/#comment-1569954</link>
		<dc:creator>Georgia Popplewell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 02:20:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=79129#comment-1569954</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Gaurav. I was in fact going to ask if there&#039;d been any research on Indian social networking usage patterns along the lines of danah boyd&#039;s. Would love to see this done for other countries as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Gaurav. I was in fact going to ask if there&#8217;d been any research on Indian social networking usage patterns along the lines of danah boyd&#8217;s. Would love to see this done for other countries as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Gaurav Mishra</title>
		<link>http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/06/09/caste-based-communities-on-orkut/comment-page-1/#comment-1569953</link>
		<dc:creator>Gaurav Mishra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:49:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=79129#comment-1569953</guid>
		<description>@Georgia/ @Solana: I was indeed referring to Facebook and Orkut in the Indian context, where there&#039;s a distinct demographic difference between Facebook and Orkut users. The Consortium of Pub-going, Loose and Forward Women fits in with Facebook in India, while the caste-based communities fit with the dynamics of Orkut in India. I would even speculate that the same user would feel comfortable joining one but not the other on these two social networking sites. Perhaps, my use of the word &quot;loonies&quot; was based on my own bias against defining our identities narrowly based on caste etc.

In the context of caste in India, I would argue that it&#039;s bad and backward-looking, perhaps even pernicious, even in its most benign forms (marrying within the same caste etc). It is also obvious to even the most sympathetic observer that discussions around caste in India are far from benign. Discrimination and exclusion is an issue; the mobilization of caste based identities as political vote banks is another.

@Preetam/ @Solana: Yes, such identities are still entrenched in many societies, not only in India, but that doesn&#039;t mean it&#039;s not dysfunctional.

@Preetam: I would say that any Indian online community with more than a few thousand members is unusual, given how few of these there are. It&#039;s perhaps interesting to think about why we are more likely to get an invite for a caste-based community on Orkut than on Facebook, and why the likelihood for a community like The Consortium of Pub-going, Loose and Forward Women is the opposite.

Such differences between social networking sites are common. danah boyd has done some great research on the differences between MySpace and Facebook users in the US. Perhaps, someone should do a similar deep dive into Orkut and Facebook in India.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Georgia/ @Solana: I was indeed referring to Facebook and Orkut in the Indian context, where there&#8217;s a distinct demographic difference between Facebook and Orkut users. The Consortium of Pub-going, Loose and Forward Women fits in with Facebook in India, while the caste-based communities fit with the dynamics of Orkut in India. I would even speculate that the same user would feel comfortable joining one but not the other on these two social networking sites. Perhaps, my use of the word &#8220;loonies&#8221; was based on my own bias against defining our identities narrowly based on caste etc.</p>
<p>In the context of caste in India, I would argue that it&#8217;s bad and backward-looking, perhaps even pernicious, even in its most benign forms (marrying within the same caste etc). It is also obvious to even the most sympathetic observer that discussions around caste in India are far from benign. Discrimination and exclusion is an issue; the mobilization of caste based identities as political vote banks is another.</p>
<p>@Preetam/ @Solana: Yes, such identities are still entrenched in many societies, not only in India, but that doesn&#8217;t mean it&#8217;s not dysfunctional.</p>
<p>@Preetam: I would say that any Indian online community with more than a few thousand members is unusual, given how few of these there are. It&#8217;s perhaps interesting to think about why we are more likely to get an invite for a caste-based community on Orkut than on Facebook, and why the likelihood for a community like The Consortium of Pub-going, Loose and Forward Women is the opposite.</p>
<p>Such differences between social networking sites are common. danah boyd has done some great research on the differences between MySpace and Facebook users in the US. Perhaps, someone should do a similar deep dive into Orkut and Facebook in India.</p>
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		<title>By: Preetam Rai</title>
		<link>http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/06/09/caste-based-communities-on-orkut/comment-page-1/#comment-1569952</link>
		<dc:creator>Preetam Rai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=79129#comment-1569952</guid>
		<description>1. I think you will see ethnicity/religion/&lt;put your own identifier here&gt; communities everywhere not just India. 

2. The number are not that large for these caste based communities vs. the number of Orkut users in India. Even if they seem large, I would assume that most got invited by friends and accepted the invitation.&lt;/put&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. I think you will see ethnicity/religion/
<put your own identifier here> communities everywhere not just India. </p>
<p>2. The number are not that large for these caste based communities vs. the number of Orkut users in India. Even if they seem large, I would assume that most got invited by friends and accepted the invitation.</put>
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		<title>By: Georgia Popplewell</title>
		<link>http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/06/09/caste-based-communities-on-orkut/comment-page-1/#comment-1569951</link>
		<dc:creator>Georgia Popplewell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=79129#comment-1569951</guid>
		<description>I, too, was interested to see Gaurav&#039;s characterisation of Facebook as more &quot;cosmopolitan&quot;, though I assumed he was referring to the Indian context, i.e. that Facebook tended to attract Indians with a broader geographical outlook than the more &quot;parochial&quot; Orkut. Is that reading correct, Gaurav? Because I certainly take Solana&#039;s point that there&#039;s no shortage of loons of other nationalities on FB, including some who would gladly join a &quot;Caucasian&quot; group (though thankfully Solana isn&#039;t friends with any of these).

I&#039;d also say that there&#039;s a considerable qualitative difference between a caste-based network and a network for &quot;African-American men who like Asian women&quot;. The former is underpinned by an entrenched social reality, whereas the latter is more a question of self-definition, with the corresponding effect that offline impact of the former is likely to be far greater than that of the latter. Unless, of course, those Asianophile African-American males decided to get *really* organised. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I, too, was interested to see Gaurav&#8217;s characterisation of Facebook as more &#8220;cosmopolitan&#8221;, though I assumed he was referring to the Indian context, i.e. that Facebook tended to attract Indians with a broader geographical outlook than the more &#8220;parochial&#8221; Orkut. Is that reading correct, Gaurav? Because I certainly take Solana&#8217;s point that there&#8217;s no shortage of loons of other nationalities on FB, including some who would gladly join a &#8220;Caucasian&#8221; group (though thankfully Solana isn&#8217;t friends with any of these).</p>
<p>I&#8217;d also say that there&#8217;s a considerable qualitative difference between a caste-based network and a network for &#8220;African-American men who like Asian women&#8221;. The former is underpinned by an entrenched social reality, whereas the latter is more a question of self-definition, with the corresponding effect that offline impact of the former is likely to be far greater than that of the latter. Unless, of course, those Asianophile African-American males decided to get *really* organised. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Solana Larsen</title>
		<link>http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/06/09/caste-based-communities-on-orkut/comment-page-1/#comment-1569944</link>
		<dc:creator>Solana Larsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 23:15:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=79129#comment-1569944</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s interesting you consider Facebook more cosmopolitan and less &quot;loony&quot; than Orkut. As far as I know, there are lots of locos on Facebook. Could it not simply be to do with numbers? Is the lower number of caste-based group on Facebook in any way proportional with uptake of the network geographically?

As you say, this kind of group behavior mirrors real life interaction in Indian society. I would agree with you that caste discrimination is wrong, but is it necessarily so different from other kinds of tribal/national/group/affiliation behavior on social networks? I guess it all depends on the tone in which it happens.

I don&#039;t think anyone I know has joined any &quot;Caucasian&quot; networks, but I&#039;ve heard of a group for &quot;African-American men who like Asian women&quot;, and some crazy people called the Danish-Puerto Rican Society. On Orkut, I&#039;ve joined &quot;People named Solana or Solano&quot;.

Aren&#039;t we all encouraged to self-define our identities online?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s interesting you consider Facebook more cosmopolitan and less &#8220;loony&#8221; than Orkut. As far as I know, there are lots of locos on Facebook. Could it not simply be to do with numbers? Is the lower number of caste-based group on Facebook in any way proportional with uptake of the network geographically?</p>
<p>As you say, this kind of group behavior mirrors real life interaction in Indian society. I would agree with you that caste discrimination is wrong, but is it necessarily so different from other kinds of tribal/national/group/affiliation behavior on social networks? I guess it all depends on the tone in which it happens.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think anyone I know has joined any &#8220;Caucasian&#8221; networks, but I&#8217;ve heard of a group for &#8220;African-American men who like Asian women&#8221;, and some crazy people called the Danish-Puerto Rican Society. On Orkut, I&#8217;ve joined &#8220;People named Solana or Solano&#8221;.</p>
<p>Aren&#8217;t we all encouraged to self-define our identities online?</p>
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