Comments on: Palestine: The Story of a Gazan “Martyr”

By: Ibn Verga

Ibn Verga — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 22:38:41 +0000

Hi Jay,
I agree with your post I had posted something similar before “Stan R”, I have changed my on line name to Ibn Verga, he was 15th Century “wandering jew” in Italy after he was thrown from Spain, rationalist (Middle Ages atheist) who wrote a book ” Why are we (Jews) still hated?”
Problem with Islam it still lives in Middle Ages. The Islamists are terrorizing average Arab or Muslim population. Look what happened in Pakistan. The Judaism changed from it’s violent past, Christianity same but Islam continues to be unreasonable, violent religion. Statistic shows that 26% of Muslim population subscribe literally to this type of violent, anti-woman, pedophile religion. Rest of the population is scared, terrorized to be quiet. Interestingly in Gaza cracks are appearing. The population is openly questioning the “welfare” program by the Islamic Hamas. They are proud people and they don’t want hand outs.
No question this boy was brainwashed by offer of maybe money (Hamas pays 10K euros for “martyrdom”) or 72 “virgins” poor guys are sexually deprived. Maybe that the reason you have a large number in-family rape among muslim families.

By: Jay Kactuz

Jay Kactuz — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 16:14:26 +0000

Colin, I just check GVO and see you have left a comment. Here goes my reply… The partition occurred at the end of November 1947, the mandate expired in May1948. Most of the fighting occurred in1948. The Arabs (both inside and outside Palestine) did not accept the partition.

Let me quote from Wikipedia: “On the day after the vote, a spate of Arab attacks left seven Jews dead and scores more wounded. Shooting, stoning, and rioting continued apace in the following days. The consulates of Poland and Sweden, both of whose governments had voted for partition, were attacked. Bombs were thrown into cafes, Molotov cocktails were hurled at shops, a synagogue was set on fire. Fighting began almost as soon as the plan was approved, beginning with the Arab Jerusalem Riots of 1947”. And “The declaration was followed by an invasion of the new state by troops from Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon and Syria, starting the 1948 Arab-Israeli War…”

As to the Jews just having arrived in Palestine “only 30 years” before, let me quote a guy named Karl Marx (New York Daily Tribune, 15 April 1854): “The Mussulmans, forming about a fourth part of the whole, and consisting of Turks, Arabs and Moors, are, of course, the masters in every respect, as they are in no way affected with the weakness of their Government at Constantinople. Nothing equals the misery and suffering of the Jews at Jerusalem, inhabiting the most filthy quarter of the town, called hareth-el-yahoud, this quarter of dirt between Mount Zion and Mount Moriah, where their synagogues are situated – the constant objects of Mussulman oppression and intolerance, insulted by the Greeks, persecuted by the Latins and living only upon the scanty alms transmitted by their European brethren. The Jews, however, are not natives, but from distant and different countries, and are only attracted to Jerusalem by the desire of inhabiting the Valley of Jehosophat and to die in the very places where their Redemptor is to be expected.

FYI the Jews have always been in ancient Judea (with possible exceptions of after 132 AD and 1099 AD). Notice I included the quote about jews being from other places. They always are. They get expelled but they return, always. Notice that Muslims were only 25% of population. Notice how they treated others, as usual.

So it was the Zionists that made the Jews leave Arab lands? I guess the hate, violence and discrimination, not to mention orders to leave and take nothing by Arab governments, had nothing to do with it. Tell me, is there anything that these Zionists can’t do? They seem to control the Arab mind so much that Muslims are mere puppets in their evil hands. For Muslims, everything bad must always be blamed on others. Notice I quoted a verse from the Quran, is that also “crude Zionist propaganda”?

Now about Islamophobia. Why can’t Muslims understand that some people don’t like Islam because of the hate and violence it teaches and because of the hate and violence that Muslims do? Maybe you should read the Quran and ahadith, as I have. Maybe you would then notice they are not about nice people doing nice things and thinking sweet thoughts. Who knows, maybe you would notice a connection between the hate and violence in Islam’s doctrines and history and the stupid evil actions of this young man. Perhaps you may even notice a link between violence in many different countries around the world and a certain religion.

The solution is simple: All the Muslims have to do is give up the hate and quit attacking others. Of course, that is too much to expect, and so the violence continues. Of course, this makes some people very happy.

Kactuz

By: Jane

Jane — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 12:17:29 +0000

Hi there – tell me should the Palestinians accept the Jews in their land, if all their doing is occupying it?

PS: I dont care.

Have a great day :)
Oh one more thing, Palestinians dont hate – theyre fed up.

By: Stan R

Stan R — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 21:38:09 +0000

I had been just reading a Colin response to you. I believe You as a person who probably received very little creditable information about Arab-Jewish conflict should receive information backed by facts not hateful anti-Jewish rhetoric..
First, Jews were continuously living in area of Palestine since acout 1300 BC. The Bible gives some credibility with timetable to 70 AC. (Jewish-Roman war)
Second Historical Information is from 352AD – Jewish rebellion against Byzantine rule. Estimate is approximately 1000000 Jews were living then what is now call Israel, Palestine and Jordan.
Third Historical Information is from 638 AD when the cities like Jerusalem accepted Arab Caliph rule. He ruled from Baghdad (now Iraq)
From 1066 to apr. 1270 we have famous Crusaders.
Just to keep it short then we had Malmuk sultan from Syria, Second Crusaders, Ottoman rule. All have a written documents of Jews living in the area of Palestine in large numbers. There was not large Muslim population at that time.

There were pogroms during the Crusader periods but they were initiated by Christians. The Muslim population was able to run away, Jews did not have a place to run to.

Earliest documented Arab pogrom what I had been able to find is from 1834 in Safed. Population of about 4000 Jews.

Just to give you idea of size of Jewish population comparing to Arab population at that time..

Safed 4000 Jews
Bethlehem 200 families as per Mark Twain (American writer 19 century who traveled in Palestine)
1920 Mebi Musa
1929 Hebron. (after this pogrom Jews organized a defense force to protect them.

The Arabs in Palestine at that time did not consider themselves Palestinians but Syrians and wanted to be part of Greater Syrian state. The label “Palestine” was “reserved” for Jews. They strongly protested in 193o’s and in 1940′s to that name. Only 196o’s Arafat started to use the name as a political tool and cover all areas including Israel.

One more I like to tell you. This conflict is not about land or nationalistic aspiration of Arab population. It’s about power and money. The leadership of PLO or Hamas know that with today’s education levels and welfare dependency of Arab population the independent state not including Israel is not realistic. The socio-economic problems are too large, the reward is too small. With post nation-state era almost nil.

By: Dörte

Dörte — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 21:24:07 +0000

Has no one of you read this text carefully enough to see how torn and desparate this mother is? She is trying to accept her son’s decision and at the same time wishing he will survive. That is stomach-turning indeed, but it’s also heart-rending. You are very much concerned about fighting each other, but have you ever thought of fighting the reasons for despair?

By: Siwash

Siwash — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 19:42:45 +0000

Ditto to that Jane.
:-)

By: Siwash

Siwash — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 19:40:52 +0000

Stan R,

If you really want a history lesson, then I suggest that you read “The Gun and the Olive Branch” by David Hirsht which will document the “ownership” of Palestine in an impartial way. Yes, there were Jews living in Palestine pre-Nakba times, but they were only 6-12% of the indegenious people.

Moreover, history will document that Jews living under Muslim rule throught the Caliphate rule, then Ommayad dynasty, then Ottoman Empire were never subjected to a massacre, unlike what happened to them in Europe (e.g. the Spanish Inquistion, and Hitler’s Concentration Camps). That is why Israelis are so afraid of Muslims. Even at the height of our power, we never committed atrocities against the Jews. We have the moral high ground and we will win in the end. It is a part of our faith.

By: Stan R

Stan R — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 11:11:42 +0000

Hi Jane,
Just quick history lesson. The Jews were living in Palestine for the last 3000 years. Yes there were pogroms but they were never wiped up. To call an Arab a Palestinian would cost you a “knife” in your back until mid 20 century. Their leadership did not consider themselves Palestinian (that was reserved for Jews) but Greater Syrians and wanted to be part of Syria. That was the one of the reasons they refused independent Arab state in Palestine. Only Arafat in early 60′s started to use name Palestine and independence as a political tool.
Peace

By: Colin Andersen

Colin Andersen — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 10:15:57 +0000

Kay, your facts and arguments are indeed cactus. Palestine’s partition was in 1947, not 1948. And forget ‘Arab armies’, the Palestinians did not accept it because it was unjust. I don’t know where you live, but is it really too hard for you to imagine a situation in which a white man’s club (the UN in 47), without consulting you or your people, decides to hand over half of your country to a group of people who have been there under 30 years and own only a fraction of the land? As for your Arab armies, they only entered Palestine 4 months after Zionist forces had begun ethnically cleansing it of non-Jews in order to establish their sectarian Jewish state. The issue of Arab Jews is a separate, later issue (50s), an unfortunate spillover from what happened in Palestine, and involved in large part an organized Zionist campaign to uproot them and bring them to Israel in a cynical effort to boost numbers and block a return of Palestinian refugees. If you have a genuine interest in history, which I doubt, check out Abbas Shiblak’s excellent Iraqi Jews: A History of Mass Exodus for example. At any rate, both the issue of Palestinian refugees such as Mu’min and that of Arab Jews with property claims against Arab governments call out for redress. The rest of your contribution is cactus of the standard Islamophobic variety. PS: I don’t care if you’re from Mars – you’re spouting crude Zionist propaganda.

By: Jane

Jane — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 03:36:07 +0000

Amen

and let me add one more thing
- and may God help the ones who are so ignorant and close minded. Help them understand.

God bless you all

By: Jane

Jane — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 03:33:32 +0000

Problem with you ; you cant seem to understand that this land belongs to Palestine.

Had Isreal never come into the picture in 1948, the Palestinians woudnt be living under occupation and constant wars.

I am not living only on hate Stan, I am living with logic. How is it logic for Palestine to be living under occupation, when this is in fact their land? Once again, problem with you ; you ignore that fact. Which is why you are constantly judging.

Have a great one, God bless*

By: Kay kactuz

Kay kactuz — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:27:23 +0000

Jane and Colin, the reason that Mu’min and his people have no land is because Arab armies did not accept the partition back in 1948. They attacked the newly formed Jewish state. Many Palestianins fled, other were driven from their homes.

Since then, the Palestianians have adopted a culture of hate and death. They have supported corrupt and evil governments (I use that word loosely). They have also been used by their so-called friends. Even so, their hate and violence has gotten them expelled from Jordan and Kuwait. Notice the use of the word “martyr” to describe a person that thinks only of killing and being killed – quite different from that of Christian tradition.

Oh yes, for every Palestianian expelled from their homes, a Jew in the ancient middle east was also forced out of lands where they had lived for hundreds (or thousands) of years. The difference? Israel took them in.

Tell me, why should the Jews be nice to a people that lives to hate and kill, a people that, if given a chance, would kill every Jewish man, woman and child in Israel? Of course, the Palestianians have been willing tools for radical Islam, which rejoices over every dead baby Palestinian.

This poor young fool is an example of a barbaric, irrational ideology that is taking hold of people around the world. It is a return to the basic teachings of Mohammud about attacking and killing. It is a case of doing that Allah tells them to – to kill and be killed. That is from the Quran, verse 9:111 (what irony!) in case you dont know. This ideology is what turned this young man’s life into a living hell of hate and violence.

Your ignorance of history, Islamic traditions and Muslim teachings – and your unwillingness to question any aspect of Islam, no matter how silly or violent – contributes to the circle of violence that will never end.

Jay

PS: I am not jewish.

By: Siwash

Siwash — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 19:47:24 +0000

My eyes teared while reading this account in admiration for the martyr’s sacrifice and the mother’s acceptance and delight at it. It would be difficult for any of us who love life too much to realize how much determination and belief in God that it takes to be a martyr – in other words, to sacrifice your life for a higher meaning/cause. That it takes guts and conviction is something that we will not easily understand.
So, please do not make your judgements while you are sitting in the comfort of our sofas sorrounded by life’s material possessions. We cannot fathom to understand the “less than humane” conditions that the proud and might people of Gaza live under due to the illegal and racist policy of the Israelis.
May God grant Palestine independence and reward all of its martyrs and freedom fighters who have chosen a higher calling that ordinary souls cannot fathom or comprehend.

By: Stan R

Stan R — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 18:37:24 +0000

My friend, facts no propaganda.

Gaza: 1949 UNWR 240,000 people
Gaza: 1967 UNWR 280,000 people (Israel took over)
Gaza: 2006 UNWR 1,450,000 people (Israel left)
Gaza: 2009 UNWR 1,480,000 people.

Women (mothers) bring children to the this world when they feel save and believe that the family and society can support them.

Problem with you, you are living only on hate.

By: Jane

Jane — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:52:42 +0000

Hi there, yes perhaps they are.
Which is why I keep insisting that it is not expected for them to understand. When someone takes your land, you will do anything in order to get it back. Even die for it. And they are not to judge wheather God will accept it or not.

The poor guy had no choice, since his whole life hes had to live under occupation, along with all the rest of the Palestinians.

But hey, Im still curious to hear what they to say.
Unlike most ppl, I like to hear the other side. Just to see what other excuse they have to offer the world, once again.

Have a great day, God bless you all.
:)