Comments on: Global: Protests for Palestine http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/01/04/global-protests-for-palestine/ The world is talking. Are you listening? Mon, 30 Nov 2009 04:30:24 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Doug Swallow http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/01/04/global-protests-for-palestine/comment-page-3/#comment-1548908 Doug Swallow Wed, 28 Jan 2009 02:05:28 +0000 http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=54829#comment-1548908 Stan R:I noticed that you have opened this thread up again. Do not expect a response from J. York. Even though she is a self acclaimed writer, two and three line responses such as the one you refer to will be about the limit and I do believe that she is an American living the good life in Boston and probably free from being hit by any rockets. Aside from that, you offer a good appraisal of the topic. You will find that cruisedoctor gives a well thought out appraisal of this issue that comes from direct experience in the area. I do differ with him on one issue and that is regarding if China has a religious re awaking and how that will impact the rest of the world. He should not worry because both beliefs taught by The Buddha and by Confucius are passive, peaceful and reasonable, in other words, the direct opposite of Islam. I have been to China on three different occasions and am fascinated by the country and it's long history. I was coming through the Three Gorges and we stopped at an old temple complex. I engaged in conversation with a youthful girl that acted as guide there and she volunteered that her religion was communism and her "God" was Mao Zedong. I was speechless, maybe fortunately, and really wondered if she had no knowledge of Mao's "Great Leap Forward" and his "Cultural Revolution" that left millions of innocent Chinese starved to death or murdered. What ever form most religions take can have dire consequences on the general population and maybe we'd just be better off with out this opium of the masses as Lenin called it. Liliane also offers up responses that demonstrate that she has experience and also knowledge of the issue and the area. Stan R:I noticed that you have opened this thread up again. Do not expect a response from J. York. Even though she is a self acclaimed writer, two and three line responses such as the one you refer to will be about the limit and I do believe that she is an American living the good life in Boston and probably free from being hit by any rockets. Aside from that, you offer a good appraisal of the topic. You will find that cruisedoctor gives a well thought out appraisal of this issue that comes from direct experience in the area. I do differ with him on one issue and that is regarding if China has a religious re awaking and how that will impact the rest of the world. He should not worry because both beliefs taught by The Buddha and by Confucius are passive, peaceful and reasonable, in other words, the direct opposite of Islam.

I have been to China on three different occasions and am fascinated by the country and it’s long history. I was coming through the Three Gorges and we stopped at an old temple complex. I engaged in conversation with a youthful girl that acted as guide there and she volunteered that her religion was communism and her “God” was Mao Zedong. I was speechless, maybe fortunately, and really wondered if she had no knowledge of Mao’s “Great Leap Forward” and his “Cultural Revolution” that left millions of innocent Chinese starved to death or murdered. What ever form most religions take can have dire consequences on the general population and maybe we’d just be better off with out this opium of the masses as Lenin called it.

Liliane also offers up responses that demonstrate that she has experience and also knowledge of the issue and the area.

]]> By: Stan R http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/01/04/global-protests-for-palestine/comment-page-3/#comment-1548889 Stan R Tue, 27 Jan 2009 22:51:26 +0000 http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=54829#comment-1548889 Hi Jillian York: I came accross your blog trying to set up a blog covering Canadian politics. I assume you are Canadian too. Maybe you came accross my responses in regard of Gaza and your writting dated january 5th cought my attention. "And how many other nations would allow occupation for 61 years without taking action (by firing rockets or otherwise)?" Very good question but as a Canadian you are wrong person to ask it, and it applies to Americans, Mexicans, Brazilians, English, German and even most of the Arab world. Really Israelis have the best written historical support for the land including what is now Jordan, part of Syria, Lebanon even Medina etc. Israel-Arab fight is not about land but power. Questions you have to ask do you believe in tribal sharia based governance - 4 wives (I am man I agree), cutting hands, crucification, stoning etc. Well I dont but unfortunatelly large portion of Arab population, being kept uneducated by their rulers, agree. It gives them security. Hi Jillian York:
I came accross your blog trying to set up a blog covering Canadian politics. I assume you are Canadian too. Maybe you came accross my responses in regard of Gaza and your writting dated january 5th cought my attention.

“And how many other nations would allow occupation for 61 years without taking action (by firing rockets or otherwise)?”

Very good question but as a Canadian you are wrong person to ask it, and it applies to Americans, Mexicans, Brazilians, English, German and even most of the Arab world. Really Israelis have the best written historical support for the land including what is now Jordan, part of Syria, Lebanon even Medina etc. Israel-Arab fight is not about land but power. Questions you have to ask do you believe in tribal sharia based governance – 4 wives (I am man I agree), cutting hands, crucification, stoning etc. Well I dont but unfortunatelly large portion of Arab population, being kept uneducated by their rulers, agree. It gives them security.

]]> By: cruisedoctor http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/01/04/global-protests-for-palestine/comment-page-3/#comment-1547388 cruisedoctor Sun, 18 Jan 2009 16:47:26 +0000 http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=54829#comment-1547388 Liliane, I too have lived through war as a child and it was over a moronic, stupid soccer game. Or so, the media sensationalized it as such. It actually was over a border dispute. I hated the sirens at night, and the blackouts and feared the walk to school. I have also been to Iraq where I spent over a year helping rebuild clinics and a hospital so the innocent could have a place to seek care while at the same time experiencing that exhilarating Winston Churchillian feeling of being shot at and not being hit by two RPGs and an IED. I saw the face of those that wanted NOTHING to do with the war. All they wanted was to open up their shops and sell their wares. I saw the kids going to school. Most folks did not hate us, we were there to help. But, they all hated Al Qaeda. They all hated the thugs from the other sects who were allied with Al Qaeda. I treated our wounded troops and the Iraqi ones. I saw the remains of those executed for wanting to push forward and seek a better Iraq. All in the name of bloody religion. Look, Christians are not running around without blood on their hands. My home country was 'cleansed' and 'converted' by the Spaniards to become Catholics back in the 1500's. Christians have gone into the deepest part of Africa and 'converted' the blind into the ways of Christ. That was hundreds of years ago. What Islam is doing is going through ITS phase, now, or rather...again. Heck, when the Chinese re-discover religion, those 1 billion folks will more than likely go through their phase of 'rule the world through Confucius or Buddha or whatever'. I exaggerate to make a point. It may not happen in our lifetime, but who is to say it won't come to pass. What irks me the most out of all these conflicts that these Islamists are stirring up is that the WORLD IS NOT PROTESTING THEM!!! I don't see 1 billion Muslims from Cairo to Caracas waving flags and burning green Hamas flags and flashing protest posters condemning the actions of Hamas or Hezbollah after firing THOUSANDS of rockets. I don't see 1 billion muslims in an uproar over the way the Taliban desecrated Afghanistan, stoned and raped its women and turned the nation into a narco state. I don't see blog after blog condemning the actions of Ahmadinejad and his war inciting rhetoric. There's no effigy of him being lit on fire by Muslims in Dearborn, Michigan or London. And, there sure as heck were no millions of protesters taking to the streets of the world condemning Bin Laden and his band of thugs who took down two buildings in New York. A cowardly and senseless crime. No, instead, what happened in your backyard? There was flag waving, horn honking, guns fired into the air and celebratory dances because the Devil's belly had been stabbed!!! That's the difference in our world right now. All other religions want to live in peace. Islam wants to rule by the sword. That's not a religion. That's not the way of peace in the world. Why is that? If the real point here is for those who have suffered through war and who know how much hell there is associated with it to jump up and condemn it so we can stop it from continuing, then why is it not happening? Why, tell me, is it that there are no protests down the streets of Lebanon demanding that the attacks from BOTH sides cease and that people be allowed to lead a meaningful life of schooling, trading, working, travel and PEACE? Because of FEAR. That's why. FEAR that you will be executed for going against the grain. Well, guess what...I LOVE the fact I can speak out in a newspaper against my leaders and my government and not have to worry about some radical fanatic coming into my house, wave a book at me, and tell me that what I said was blasphemous and now he has to saw my head off and that of my children. Why is that? Because 200 years ago a lot of brave citizens took up arms against their oppressor and they created the freedom they craved. So, until the day arrives that every Muslim who wants to live in peace and be allowed to practice his or her religion in peace decides to stand up and say "Enough!" to the radicals, then, this type of conflict will continue. Peace. Liliane, I too have lived through war as a child and it was over a moronic, stupid soccer game. Or so, the media sensationalized it as such. It actually was over a border dispute. I hated the sirens at night, and the blackouts and feared the walk to school.
I have also been to Iraq where I spent over a year helping rebuild clinics and a hospital so the innocent could have a place to seek care while at the same time experiencing that exhilarating Winston Churchillian feeling of being shot at and not being hit by two RPGs and an IED.
I saw the face of those that wanted NOTHING to do with the war. All they wanted was to open up their shops and sell their wares. I saw the kids going to school. Most folks did not hate us, we were there to help. But, they all hated Al Qaeda. They all hated the thugs from the other sects who were allied with Al Qaeda.
I treated our wounded troops and the Iraqi ones. I saw the remains of those executed for wanting to push forward and seek a better Iraq.
All in the name of bloody religion.
Look, Christians are not running around without blood on their hands. My home country was ‘cleansed’ and ‘converted’ by the Spaniards to become Catholics back in the 1500’s. Christians have gone into the deepest part of Africa and ‘converted’ the blind into the ways of Christ. That was hundreds of years ago.
What Islam is doing is going through ITS phase, now, or rather…again. Heck, when the Chinese re-discover religion, those 1 billion folks will more than likely go through their phase of ‘rule the world through Confucius or Buddha or whatever’. I exaggerate to make a point. It may not happen in our lifetime, but who is to say it won’t come to pass.
What irks me the most out of all these conflicts that these Islamists are stirring up is that the WORLD IS NOT PROTESTING THEM!!! I don’t see 1 billion Muslims from Cairo to Caracas waving flags and burning green Hamas flags and flashing protest posters condemning the actions of Hamas or Hezbollah after firing THOUSANDS of rockets. I don’t see 1 billion muslims in an uproar over the way the Taliban desecrated Afghanistan, stoned and raped its women and turned the nation into a narco state. I don’t see blog after blog condemning the actions of Ahmadinejad and his war inciting rhetoric. There’s no effigy of him being lit on fire by Muslims in Dearborn, Michigan or London. And, there sure as heck were no millions of protesters taking to the streets of the world condemning Bin Laden and his band of thugs who took down two buildings in New York. A cowardly and senseless crime. No, instead, what happened in your backyard? There was flag waving, horn honking, guns fired into the air and celebratory dances because the Devil’s belly had been stabbed!!!
That’s the difference in our world right now. All other religions want to live in peace. Islam wants to rule by the sword. That’s not a religion. That’s not the way of peace in the world.
Why is that? If the real point here is for those who have suffered through war and who know how much hell there is associated with it to jump up and condemn it so we can stop it from continuing, then why is it not happening? Why, tell me, is it that there are no protests down the streets of Lebanon demanding that the attacks from BOTH sides cease and that people be allowed to lead a meaningful life of schooling, trading, working, travel and PEACE? Because of FEAR. That’s why. FEAR that you will be executed for going against the grain.
Well, guess what…I LOVE the fact I can speak out in a newspaper against my leaders and my government and not have to worry about some radical fanatic coming into my house, wave a book at me, and tell me that what I said was blasphemous and now he has to saw my head off and that of my children. Why is that? Because 200 years ago a lot of brave citizens took up arms against their oppressor and they created the freedom they craved.
So, until the day arrives that every Muslim who wants to live in peace and be allowed to practice his or her religion in peace decides to stand up and say “Enough!” to the radicals, then, this type of conflict will continue.
Peace.

]]> By: Doug Swallow http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/01/04/global-protests-for-palestine/comment-page-3/#comment-1547308 Doug Swallow Sun, 18 Jan 2009 04:59:41 +0000 http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=54829#comment-1547308 I think that the demographics of the area have much bearing on Israel's actions: Egypt has a population of 75,774,000; Syria, 19,929,000; Jordan, 5,924,000; Lebanon, 4,099,00; and the Palestinian Authority, 3,761,646 for a total of 105,388,646 folks that, for the most part, do not want a nation of 7,373,000 (of which about 23.6 percent are non-Jewish; therefore, about 5,633,200 could be said to actually support the state of Israel) to exist. When viewed from this angle, one can see that Israel hasn't much room for error if it intends to exist. This also must add up to a great embarrassment and reason for self analysis as to why, after numerous attacks on Israel by the Islamic world, the nation continues to exist and, if anything, thrive. I do not think that the Koran is miss-interpreted in any way because the jihadist actions speak much louder than their words. Since 9/11/01, Islamic terrorist have carried out 12,605 deadly terror attacks around the world (this is the number of attacks and not the numbers killed in them). How many attacks have been carried out in the same period of time by Buddhist, Hindus, Christians or Taoist? There are peaceful and moderate Muslims but there is no peaceful and moderate Islam. HATENOMORE: Instead of being "offended" why don't you offer up your solution to this crises? If you think that no religion promotes killings and wars, then you have not studied Islam, look up some of the verses that I presented above and see then if you can make this same uninformed statement. Jesus taught, "Love your enemies" (Matthew 5:44). The Qur'an tells Muslims to be "ruthless to unbelievers" (48:29). When one commits violence in the name of Christianity, he is transgressing against Christ's teachings, but the jihadists make and sustain the case among their fellow Muslims that they are the believers who are being truly faithful to Islamic teaching. "We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light." - Plato In the Topkapi in Istanbul there are 6 Swords of the Prophet, tell me where there are any swords of the Buddha or Swords of Jesus. What follows sums up my view of religion: “Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”-- by Nobel Laureate physicist Steven Weinberg. I think that the demographics of the area have much bearing on Israel’s actions: Egypt has a population of 75,774,000; Syria, 19,929,000; Jordan, 5,924,000; Lebanon, 4,099,00; and the Palestinian Authority, 3,761,646 for a total of 105,388,646 folks that, for the most part, do not want a nation of 7,373,000 (of which about 23.6 percent are non-Jewish; therefore, about 5,633,200 could be said to actually support the state of Israel) to exist. When viewed from this angle, one can see that Israel hasn’t much room for error if it intends to exist. This also must add up to a great embarrassment and reason for self analysis as to why, after numerous attacks on Israel by the Islamic world, the nation continues to exist and, if anything, thrive.

I do not think that the Koran is miss-interpreted in any way because the jihadist actions speak much louder than their words. Since 9/11/01, Islamic terrorist have carried out 12,605 deadly terror attacks around the world (this is the number of attacks and not the numbers killed in them). How many attacks have been carried out in the same period of time by Buddhist, Hindus, Christians or Taoist? There are peaceful and moderate Muslims but there is no peaceful and moderate Islam.

HATENOMORE: Instead of being “offended” why don’t you offer up your solution to this crises? If you think that no religion promotes killings and wars, then you have not studied Islam, look up some of the verses that I presented above and see then if you can make this same uninformed statement.
Jesus taught, “Love your enemies” (Matthew 5:44). The Qur’an tells Muslims to be “ruthless to unbelievers” (48:29). When one commits violence in the name of Christianity, he is transgressing against Christ’s teachings, but the jihadists make and sustain the case among their fellow Muslims that they are the believers who are being truly faithful to Islamic teaching.
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.” – Plato

In the Topkapi in Istanbul there are 6 Swords of the Prophet, tell me where there are any swords of the Buddha or Swords of Jesus.

What follows sums up my view of religion:

“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”– by
Nobel Laureate physicist Steven Weinberg.

]]> By: HATENOMORE http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/01/04/global-protests-for-palestine/comment-page-3/#comment-1547270 HATENOMORE Sat, 17 Jan 2009 20:11:38 +0000 http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=54829#comment-1547270 reading this blog, i'm seriously offended as a human being. Instead of finding reasons of justification to killings and wars; we should be findng a solution. Regardless, of any religion being the "true" one, there are people being killed!!! it just seems like numbers to us,in our safe and comfy lives, but what we forget to see is that when people die they shed the same colour of blood that all of us have!!!! its easy for people to pass judgement, who are not going through the pain so lets come together not as members of religious groups but as humanity ****remember no religion promotes killings and wars........the mass media, and ignorance have given way to this ideology. DO NOT extend the actions of a person or a group of persons to an entire people(s) reading this blog, i’m seriously offended as a human being. Instead of finding reasons of justification to killings and wars; we should be findng a solution. Regardless, of any religion being the “true” one, there are people being killed!!! it just seems like numbers to us,in our safe and comfy lives, but what we forget to see is that when people die they shed the same colour of blood that all of us have!!!!
its easy for people to pass judgement, who are not going through the pain so lets come together not as members of religious groups but as humanity
****remember no religion promotes killings and wars……..the mass media, and ignorance have given way to this ideology. DO NOT extend the actions of a person or a group of persons to an entire people(s)

]]> By: Liliane http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/01/04/global-protests-for-palestine/comment-page-3/#comment-1547242 Liliane Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:29:09 +0000 http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=54829#comment-1547242 I definitely agree on the religion thing. Quick note, am not that well informed on what the Kuran says, and honestly I know for a fact it is very easy to mis-interpret the Kyran even if you know arabic, so what about translating it? it could lose or change a lot of meanings. But of course don't other religions claim to be the supreme religion too? That's a whole other subject from what the post was about... Anyway luckily there are non-radical religious people out there, there are rational people from all religions and that's our only hope for "a completely peaceful world", but for some balance at least. I definitely agree on the religion thing. Quick note, am not that well informed on what the Kuran says, and honestly I know for a fact it is very easy to mis-interpret the Kyran even if you know arabic, so what about translating it? it could lose or change a lot of meanings.

But of course don’t other religions claim to be the supreme religion too? That’s a whole other subject from what the post was about…

Anyway luckily there are non-radical religious people out there, there are rational people from all religions and that’s our only hope for “a completely peaceful world”, but for some balance at least.

]]> By: Doug Swallow http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/01/04/global-protests-for-palestine/comment-page-3/#comment-1547035 Doug Swallow Fri, 16 Jan 2009 06:10:42 +0000 http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=54829#comment-1547035 Liliane: You offer up a balanced, informative appraisal of this issue but the problem is not going to ever go away because of the religious aspect of the conflict. I do not know from your post if you are Muslim or not but I will still end this with some passages from the Koran and Hadiths that I see as being at the root of this deplorable dilemma. I have, and it was not my idea to do so, seen what war is about by having served for one year in the Central High Lands of Vietnam back in the mid 1960s;therefore, I appreciate Winston Churchill's statement; "Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result." (The United States had no more business being involved there at that time than they do being involved in Iraq now, just an opinion). War is a bitter and gruesome affair and it always seems that the innocent are the biggest victims. That said, this shows to me that Hamas could care less about the general population of the Gaza Strip or they would have not kept firing the rockets into Israel and I still believe that Israel has the right to defend their population. Where ever Palestinians have been or are there is trouble, Syria doesn't want them, Jordan nor Egypt want them. I don't think that their presents in Lebanon has been a positive thing for Lebanon either where I think life was pretty good up until the 1980's when all hell seemed to break out. I know you could better explain all of this. Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177; Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour {of the Last Judgment} will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him." If you would read the Koran, you will find out that Allah wants Muslims to kill the infidels (unbelievers) wherever they are found (Koran 9:5), and that peace will come only to those who submit to him (Koran 8:17, 48:29, and 65. For Allah, warfare is good (Koran 2:216) and jihad (fighting in the way of Allah) should continue until only Islam is dominant (Koran 2:193, 3:85, 8:39, 9:33, 35:37 and 61:9). Allah wants his followers to slaughter his enemies (Koran 8:67) The above doesn't seem to present much of a "Road Map for Peace" for the Middle East or, for that matter, the world. Liliane: You offer up a balanced, informative appraisal of this issue but the problem is not going to ever go away because of the religious aspect of the conflict. I do not know from your post if you are Muslim or not but I will still end this with some passages from the Koran and Hadiths that I see as being at the root of this deplorable dilemma.

I have, and it was not my idea to do so, seen what war is about by having served for one year in the Central High Lands of Vietnam back in the mid 1960s;therefore, I appreciate Winston Churchill’s statement; “Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.” (The United States had no more business being involved there at that time than they do being involved in Iraq now, just an opinion). War is a bitter and gruesome affair and it always seems that the innocent are the biggest victims. That said, this shows to me that Hamas could care less about the general population of the Gaza Strip or they would have not kept firing the rockets into Israel and I still believe that Israel has the right to defend their population.

Where ever Palestinians have been or are there is trouble, Syria doesn’t want them, Jordan nor Egypt want them. I don’t think that their presents in Lebanon has been a positive thing for Lebanon either where I think life was pretty good up until the 1980’s when all hell seemed to break out. I know you could better explain all of this.

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177; Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle said, “The Hour {of the Last Judgment} will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. “O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.”
If you would read the Koran, you will find out that Allah wants Muslims to kill the infidels (unbelievers) wherever they are found (Koran 9:5), and that peace will come only to those who submit to him (Koran 8:17, 48:29, and 65. For Allah, warfare is good (Koran 2:216) and jihad (fighting in the way of Allah) should continue until only Islam is dominant (Koran 2:193, 3:85, 8:39, 9:33, 35:37 and 61:9). Allah wants his followers to slaughter his enemies (Koran 8:67)

The above doesn’t seem to present much of a “Road Map for Peace” for the Middle East or, for that matter, the world.

]]> By: Paul http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/01/04/global-protests-for-palestine/comment-page-3/#comment-1546923 Paul Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:14:30 +0000 http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=54829#comment-1546923 Liliane you're right. War is dirty and ugly and the matter of fact it's the innocents who normally pays a heavy prize. It's true I have never lived in a war infested country, never saw first hand the suffering of so many especially children . It really sickens me to see so much of atrocities and so many lives just being wasted. I could only hope and pray that peace would reign eventually and both sides would learn to live in peace and harmony. Liliane you’re right. War is dirty and ugly and the matter of fact it’s the innocents who normally pays a heavy prize. It’s true I have never lived in a war infested country, never saw first hand the suffering of so many especially children . It really sickens me to see so much of atrocities and so many lives just being wasted. I could only hope and pray that peace would reign eventually and both sides would learn to live in peace and harmony.

]]> By: Liliane http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/01/04/global-protests-for-palestine/comment-page-2/#comment-1546886 Liliane Thu, 15 Jan 2009 06:57:36 +0000 http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=54829#comment-1546886 Cruisedoctor, I see your point. You don't think we know that? But fast fact is, Israel is quite smart as well on making themselves look as victims, because, in reality? They're not. We can all go back and see how the 4 months ceasfire was broken.. who made the first move.. And no, I am not defending Hamas, not at all. It's just that my heart goes to those innocent people and kids mostly. Another point, how do you think radicals are born? Just by luck? just by chance? Israel right not is not really solving the SOURCE of the problem is it? And I have nothing against jews, some arabs do, some arabs don't, just like how i.e. Some americans have something against arabs, and some don't, it's no hypothesis to drill a recurrence proof from it and build conclusions except what they are. Anyway, I am not sure if either of you, Paul or Daug Swallow have ever lived in war, being the attacked, hearing bombs drop on your building, not having electricity, not being able to leave your country, not having food, water, always leaving school early before the bombings gets stronger... :) I have, for almost 10 years of my life (on and off). P.S. I am Lebanese. So that's why I look at Gaza now, and my heart goes directly to those people who are only, how shall I put it paying for the price of the mistakes of Hamas and Israel. More than 1000 casualties in 3 weeks? REALLY? This is making things right? This is teaching Hamas? The ball is in Israel's court now, they can stop this. Not Hamas. Cruisedoctor, I see your point. You don’t think we know that? But fast fact is, Israel is quite smart as well on making themselves look as victims, because, in reality? They’re not. We can all go back and see how the 4 months ceasfire was broken.. who made the first move..

And no, I am not defending Hamas, not at all. It’s just that my heart goes to those innocent people and kids mostly.

Another point, how do you think radicals are born? Just by luck? just by chance?

Israel right not is not really solving the SOURCE of the problem is it?

And I have nothing against jews, some arabs do, some arabs don’t, just like how i.e. Some americans have something against arabs, and some don’t, it’s no hypothesis to drill a recurrence proof from it and build conclusions except what they are.

Anyway, I am not sure if either of you, Paul or Daug Swallow have ever lived in war, being the attacked, hearing bombs drop on your building, not having electricity, not being able to leave your country, not having food, water, always leaving school early before the bombings gets stronger… :) I have, for almost 10 years of my life (on and off). P.S. I am Lebanese.

So that’s why I look at Gaza now, and my heart goes directly to those people who are only, how shall I put it paying for the price of the mistakes of Hamas and Israel. More than 1000 casualties in 3 weeks? REALLY? This is making things right? This is teaching Hamas?

The ball is in Israel’s court now, they can stop this. Not Hamas.

]]> By: cruisedoctor http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/01/04/global-protests-for-palestine/comment-page-2/#comment-1546767 cruisedoctor Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:56:01 +0000 http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=54829#comment-1546767 Liliane I'm from Central America...I have no bone in this fight. All I can tell you is that the entire world is protesting a nation's right to defend itself. War is about killing and destruction. To fight the fanatic islamists you have to accept collateral damage because they hide behind the skirts of women and in the company of children so that they can get the world to cry foul when these innocent victims are killed by hostile fire. Why doesn't the whole world get in an uproar against the senseless fanatic islamic movement? Because islamists have learned how to manipulate the media so they are viewed as the victims not the aggressors. That's the big picture. You can't see that? You sound like a very intelligent person, but you choose to wear blinders, and for what reason, I don't know. Civilians dying in Gaza is not good, Israelis getting shelled and killed over a senseless rocketing act is not good either. You're smart. What's the answer? Israel has tried to exist without harrasing neighbors and invading countries or fanning the Jewish people in the world to blow up those things that represent anything Palestinian, Islamist, Arab or Muslim. Yet, they are picked upon because they are....well, Jewish. You think that's right? What good has come out from Belfast after they fought the Brits? The Catholics fought the Protestants, for what? Hugo Chavez and his rhetoric agains America serves what purpose? None, only to satisfy his hyperinflated ego because probably some American looked at him wrong one day and now he hates America. Who knows the reason. If the issue here is to simply state that war, in general, is wrong. Then, I'm with you. I agree. But, to take sides on a fight just because you have sympathy for one side or the other without stepping back and judging the situation is plain ignorance. That would be like me saying that it was okay for the Hutus to massacre the Tutsis. What side would you take on that issue? Peace, my fellow human. This earth will never be free of war. As long as we have radicals on this earth...it will continue to happen. That's reality. Liliane
I’m from Central America…I have no bone in this fight. All I can tell you is that the entire world is protesting a nation’s right to defend itself. War is about killing and destruction. To fight the fanatic islamists you have to accept collateral damage because they hide behind the skirts of women and in the company of children so that they can get the world to cry foul when these innocent victims are killed by hostile fire. Why doesn’t the whole world get in an uproar against the senseless fanatic islamic movement? Because islamists have learned how to manipulate the media so they are viewed as the victims not the aggressors. That’s the big picture. You can’t see that? You sound like a very intelligent person, but you choose to wear blinders, and for what reason, I don’t know. Civilians dying in Gaza is not good, Israelis getting shelled and killed over a senseless rocketing act is not good either. You’re smart. What’s the answer? Israel has tried to exist without harrasing neighbors and invading countries or fanning the Jewish people in the world to blow up those things that represent anything Palestinian, Islamist, Arab or Muslim. Yet, they are picked upon because they are….well, Jewish. You think that’s right?
What good has come out from Belfast after they fought the Brits? The Catholics fought the Protestants, for what? Hugo Chavez and his rhetoric agains America serves what purpose? None, only to satisfy his hyperinflated ego because probably some American looked at him wrong one day and now he hates America. Who knows the reason.
If the issue here is to simply state that war, in general, is wrong. Then, I’m with you. I agree. But, to take sides on a fight just because you have sympathy for one side or the other without stepping back and judging the situation is plain ignorance. That would be like me saying that it was okay for the Hutus to massacre the Tutsis. What side would you take on that issue?
Peace, my fellow human. This earth will never be free of war. As long as we have radicals on this earth…it will continue to happen. That’s reality.

]]> By: Paul http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/01/04/global-protests-for-palestine/comment-page-2/#comment-1546205 Paul Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:51:58 +0000 http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=54829#comment-1546205 I truly hope that sanity would prevail but it's a sad fact nothing of it ever prevails in the region we call middle east. It's a region where a brother kills his own brother all on the basis of a sectarian difference . I am really sick and tired of the whole Islamic world with all its hypocrisy of ever picking on the Jewish state when countless number of their own people are being massacred by their own kind on the sheer reason that they are somewhat different in their beliefs. Nobody in the so call Islamic world condemns or says anything about the mindless killing of countless numbers of Shia and Sunnie muslims. The jews are not killing them brother!!! It's their own doing . The massacre that's going on in Iraq and other countries like Pakistan it's a a momentous shame on the whole islamic ideology. So why just get so freak out at a state that's only trying to defend itself from mindless people who has nothing better to do but to ruin everybody's lives including themselves. I truly hope that sanity would prevail but it’s a sad fact nothing of it ever prevails in the region we call middle east. It’s a region where a brother kills his own brother all on the basis of a sectarian difference . I am really sick and tired of the whole Islamic world with all its hypocrisy of ever picking on the Jewish state when countless number of their own people are being massacred by their own kind on the sheer reason that they are somewhat different in their beliefs. Nobody in the so call Islamic world condemns or says anything about the mindless killing of countless numbers of Shia and Sunnie muslims. The jews are not killing them brother!!! It’s their own doing . The massacre that’s going on in Iraq and other countries like Pakistan it’s a a momentous shame on the whole islamic ideology. So why just get so freak out at a state that’s only trying to defend itself from mindless people who has nothing better to do but to ruin everybody’s lives including themselves.

]]> By: Paul http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/01/04/global-protests-for-palestine/comment-page-2/#comment-1546194 Paul Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:48:06 +0000 http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=54829#comment-1546194 I wonder what \the rest of the picture is \ it is well said that those who take up the sword dies by the sword \ Hamas is clearly responsible for this senseless war firing rocket and waging a war the leaders surely knew they could never win . So why these meaningless blood shed. It's like a small punk trying to pick a fight with the mose muscular well trained kid in school. Hamas has never recognize the state of Israel (what are we gonna do ? Kick them into the sea?) They are a bunch of terrorist that very few nations has formerly recognized. What would anyone feel if their neighbor has taken your life to exist? I wonder what \the rest of the picture is \ it is well said that those who take up the sword dies by the sword \ Hamas is clearly responsible for this senseless war firing rocket and waging a war the leaders surely knew they could never win . So why these meaningless blood shed. It’s like a small punk trying to pick a fight with the mose muscular well trained kid in school. Hamas has never recognize the state of Israel (what are we gonna do ? Kick them into the sea?) They are a bunch of terrorist that very few nations has formerly recognized. What would anyone feel if their neighbor has taken your life to exist?

]]> By: Liliane http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/01/04/global-protests-for-palestine/comment-page-2/#comment-1545957 Liliane Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:46:15 +0000 http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=54829#comment-1545957 Cruise doctor, you left me speechless. :) There is nothing I can say or do to make you think otherwise. So I won't. I will just quote you: "It’s fascinating to me how people.....can become so close and narrow minded that they fail to see the rest of the picture." Cruise doctor, you left me speechless. :) There is nothing I can say or do to make you think otherwise. So I won’t.

I will just quote you:
“It’s fascinating to me how people…..can become so close and narrow minded that they fail to see the rest of the picture.”

]]> By: cruisedoctor http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/01/04/global-protests-for-palestine/comment-page-2/#comment-1545939 cruisedoctor Sun, 11 Jan 2009 16:37:15 +0000 http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=54829#comment-1545939 Wow! That's all I can say after reading this factual, sensible yet never-ending circular discourse. It's fascinating to me how people, once engrained into a particular philosophy, ideal or cause, can become so close and narrow minded that they fail to see the rest of the picture. Let us view the current conflict through a simpleton's eyes. You shot bottle rockets at my house, neighbor, all night long and through the week. I called the cops on you, I called and asked you to stop, I went to your door and asked you to stop doing that for it was terrorizing my children and the rockets were burning my beautiful yard that was once a barren spot of desert. I worked my land very hard to make it bear fruit. I slowly built my home so it looked appealing and so my kids had a nice home. Now you are being careless and irrational and continue to throw rockets at my house. The police have not done anything. They say it is a neighborly spat and we need to come to an agreement. When I approach you you simply say, sure, I'll stop but only when you lower your roof so I can see the mountains (or some unrealistic request like that). I filed a lawsuit and it has taken years to go to court. The judge told you to stop because it was not right to do such acts. But, it wasn't against the law because you can do what you want in your home. And, frankly, I am fed up. I will now take the law into my own hands. So I go into your backyard, smack you around, destroy your bottle rockets and tear up your porch which is where you are launching them from. I tear up your shed because that is where you were storing them and I destroy your car so you cannot go buy any more. From now on, every time you leave your house, I will beat you and will keep doing so until you finally relent and decide to become a good neighbor. Only then, can there be peace. You see, I know your great-grandfather and mine once had a fight over a herd of cattle. I know your father and mine argued a lot but eventually allowed by-gones to be by-gones and they lived as neighbors cordially, but not amicably. I know that you and I inherited their homes and now live as neighbors. I know that my grandfather once sued your grandfather and won an injunction that gave my grandfather your grandfather's home. And my father gave that home back to your father as a gesture of good will. However, you still hold ill feelings towards me because I am more succesful than you are. I am sorry I have worked hard to better myself and you have chosen to sit in your home and lament about the fact that I am succesful and that there has always been bad blood between the families. You choose to sit idle while I move forward. That is NOT my fault or my doing. It is time that you did a little bit of sucking-it-up and pushed forward with your life and thought about how you could become succesful in your own right so your kids could one day enjoy the bounties that your efforts may reap. Firing bottle rockets does not make you better, it only eases the pain of your CHOSEN pathetic, sorry, existence. Wow! That’s all I can say after reading this factual, sensible yet never-ending circular discourse. It’s fascinating to me how people, once engrained into a particular philosophy, ideal or cause, can become so close and narrow minded that they fail to see the rest of the picture.
Let us view the current conflict through a simpleton’s eyes. You shot bottle rockets at my house, neighbor, all night long and through the week. I called the cops on you, I called and asked you to stop, I went to your door and asked you to stop doing that for it was terrorizing my children and the rockets were burning my beautiful yard that was once a barren spot of desert. I worked my land very hard to make it bear fruit. I slowly built my home so it looked appealing and so my kids had a nice home. Now you are being careless and irrational and continue to throw rockets at my house.
The police have not done anything. They say it is a neighborly spat and we need to come to an agreement. When I approach you you simply say, sure, I’ll stop but only when you lower your roof so I can see the mountains (or some unrealistic request like that).
I filed a lawsuit and it has taken years to go to court. The judge told you to stop because it was not right to do such acts. But, it wasn’t against the law because you can do what you want in your home. And, frankly, I am fed up. I will now take the law into my own hands. So I go into your backyard, smack you around, destroy your bottle rockets and tear up your porch which is where you are launching them from. I tear up your shed because that is where you were storing them and I destroy your car so you cannot go buy any more. From now on, every time you leave your house, I will beat you and will keep doing so until you finally relent and decide to become a good neighbor. Only then, can there be peace.
You see, I know your great-grandfather and mine once had a fight over a herd of cattle. I know your father and mine argued a lot but eventually allowed by-gones to be by-gones and they lived as neighbors cordially, but not amicably. I know that you and I inherited their homes and now live as neighbors. I know that my grandfather once sued your grandfather and won an injunction that gave my grandfather your grandfather’s home. And my father gave that home back to your father as a gesture of good will.
However, you still hold ill feelings towards me because I am more succesful than you are. I am sorry I have worked hard to better myself and you have chosen to sit in your home and lament about the fact that I am succesful and that there has always been bad blood between the families. You choose to sit idle while I move forward. That is NOT my fault or my doing. It is time that you did a little bit of sucking-it-up and pushed forward with your life and thought about how you could become succesful in your own right so your kids could one day enjoy the bounties that your efforts may reap. Firing bottle rockets does not make you better, it only eases the pain of your CHOSEN pathetic, sorry, existence.

]]> By: Paul http://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/01/04/global-protests-for-palestine/comment-page-2/#comment-1545927 Paul Sun, 11 Jan 2009 14:49:27 +0000 http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=54829#comment-1545927 I just don't understand the logic behind the minds of the senseless fools who shoot stupid rockets into their so call enemy's territory incurring very little damage while receiving a barrage of destruction on their own civilian population. The leaders of Hamas has only proven their stupidity in waging wars on their enemy who has a track record of supreme military might and success. Perhaps I am wrong. It's not stupidity that reigns on these fools mind, but sheer indifference to their own peoples suffering . If there is anybody who is responsible for this carnage the blame almost solely rest on the stupid organisation that goes by the name hamas. If the leaders of Hamas truly cared for the well being of their people they would have surrendered their mindless act of rocket firing and pursued peace for once instead. Even now the sheer arrogance and indifference could be seen at the comments coming from the lips of these foolish cowards tugged in some save haven like Syria breathing words of fire and war at their enemies while countless numbers of their own people who are left to face the music of their mindless freaking leaders. I guess it's only a true saying that there are some goons in this world who just do not know when to say 'quits' I just don’t understand the logic behind the minds of the senseless fools who shoot stupid rockets into their so call enemy’s territory incurring very little damage while receiving a barrage of destruction on their own civilian population. The leaders of Hamas has only proven their stupidity in waging wars on their enemy who has a track record of supreme military might and success. Perhaps I am wrong. It’s not stupidity that reigns on these fools mind, but sheer indifference to their own peoples suffering . If there is anybody who is responsible for this carnage the blame almost solely rest on the stupid organisation that goes by the name hamas. If the leaders of Hamas truly cared for the well being of their people they would have surrendered their mindless act of rocket firing and pursued peace for once instead. Even now the sheer arrogance and indifference could be seen at the comments coming from the lips of these foolish cowards tugged in some save haven like Syria breathing words of fire and war at their enemies while countless numbers of their own people who are left to face the music of their mindless freaking leaders. I guess it’s only a true saying that there are some goons in this world who just do not know when to say ‘quits’

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