How do you know that? Did you go through each blog and verify where the bloggers were born?

Actually I did. I’m wasting my time here if the basic facts are not verified before they are challenged.

That is a blanket statement that is not applicable in the broad fashion in which you are trying to apply it. Would you care to show us where WestBankMama says that she is an illegal settler.

On her blog!

Thanks for your contribution civax. You’ve got an incorrect history, but I’ll attribute that to the Israeli education system.

No more from me.

Nobody denies the map of ’48 but that map had changed because of ARAB aggression (again and again and again…).

If there to ever be peace Palestinians must realize their dream of taking over all the land will remain just that- a dream. It will NEVER happen. NEVER.

Just like Israelis are realistic enough not to want the land of all the ancient Kingdom of Israel back, which was way bigger than current state of Israel. (And you see most Israelis don’t even use this card of “we were here first” just cause it’s not helpful)

There will be 2 states, and they will roughly be the sizes they are now. We can get that and work from here or keep fighting endlessly.

You may want to do some research in history, and you may find out that the State of Israel didn’t come into existence until 1948.
You know, before you start throwing bombs and stuff. You may also want to instruct your 4 boys to actually learn some history, before they go into your same hysterics about Islam.
Just imagine, whatever city/town you live in – some outside force insulates you. They decide whether or not you can leave your town – in fact, they put up some humungous fence, just so they can control you. Then they decide to keep the ‘doors’ closed, so no food can come in. Your job? If it happened to be at the next town over? Well, you just lost it, ’cause that same outside force would not let you leave.
Now, with all your sons, all your fantasies of violence, tell me, what would you do?
What if the ‘outside forces’ were Christian, like you are? Again, what would you do??

Idiot.

I think Golda Meyer (spelling?) said it best: “I can forgive the Palestinians for what they do to us, but not what they make us do to them.”

The Palestians are just tools that Muslim extremists use to fight Israel. They are willing fools, that drink the milk of hate from their mother’s breats. Muslims extremists don’t care about the people of Gaza — in fact, the more that are killed, the better for them.

Israel is doing what it has to do, and maybe not doing enough. Of course, Muslims demand standards of conduct for Israel that they never would apply to themselves. Look at Islamic societies. Look how Muslim governments treat their people. Need I say more?

Hassan, you and your people are just pawns, but willing ignorant pawns. You believe anything your leaders tell you and never think for yourselves.

Oh by the way, Muslims always say that Mohammad attacked “in self defense” so I guess it is OK for Israel to attack also. I assume you agree. Ha! Or maybe the Jews should expel all non-Jews from historic Judah…. Isn’t that what Mohammad did to Christians and Jews in Arabia?

Or is attacking, killing and self-defense ok for Mohammad, but not for others?

Please explain….

Kactuz

How do you know that? Did you go through each blog and verify where the bloggers were born?

I think the opinions and perspectives of people who deliberately choose to live in a war zone are tainted by their irrational behavior.

The problem with that argument is that it describes the entire country as being a warzone. That is simply incorrect. You have a better chance of being killed in an automobile accident than a terrorist incident. Which is no different than living in the U.S.

As Civax says many of the people involved here live in places that are indisputed Israel. To suggest that they do not have a right to live in peace is simply wrong.

But let’s go back to your comment:

The issue of legality is simple: The Geneva Conventions prohibit the movement of a country’s citizenry into another land it occupies. “West Bank Mama” is a self-declared illegal settler who has absolutely no legal right to live in her house, no legal right to restitution if she needs to be removed from it to make peace. Israelis on the Golan are illegal settlers, too. Israelis in Ariel, French Hill and any of the other “neighborhoods” of East Jerusalem are illegal settlers. Israel uses them and their children as human shields.

That is a blanket statement that is not applicable in the broad fashion in which you are trying to apply it. Would you care to show us where WestBankMama says that she is an illegal settler.

Or maybe we should discuss how the Ottoman Empire was carved into pieces and countries were created out of nothing. What is the justification for allowing these countries to continue to exist. There are very few hard and fast rules here.

Mexico attacking U.S. border towns? Talk about “straw man.”

I am asking a legitimate question. What do you think would happen. How would the U.S. respond.

Jack, if you are going to mention the ’straw man argument’ at least do us the favour of finding out what one is before coming here and spouting off. Here’s a clue: http://is.gd/2oA6

Gee Mike, thanks for adding to the conversation. It is good to know that someone is paying attention to the small and important details. If I had the time I might provide links that are a bit different from Wikipedia, but I just don’t care. Fortunately you’ll be here to help me out. ;)

While dispute exist about west bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan are Israeli ground. You might oppose that, but hardly anyone in Israel does. Let’s not dive into it, that’s another issue.

I’m what you called “Israelis who don’t have an escape valve and who see their only future being in the land where they were born.” So Lets continue.

In the past 2 days I’ve been talking with a lot of people, both pro and con the operation. There have been some valid points from people, there have been some unacceptable points and mostly there have been so so so much ignorance even on pure history facts. (One of the commenters on this very site went so far as to argue Hamas never did a coup to seize control of Gaza…)

Israel doesn’t do massacre, Israel doesn’t do a crime against humanity and Israel do not target civilians. According to the UN (which is constantly against Israel) out of 307 dead “only” 51 were civilians. This means the majority of dead ARE Hamas people.

That said, I’m fully aware to the amount of civilian wounded and injured, and believe me when I tell you even people here in Israel are not comfortable with the sights. You won’t see most people saying “Good, they deserve it!” or something like that.

For some reason, a lot of Arab/pro-arab comentators keep saying things like “They only soot rockets since you started the operation!” or “These rockets are home made and cause no damage!” or “Israel starve them for no reason so they shoot rockets out of disrepair!”

All false.

Israel left the Gaza strip completely. To the last settler. We also left there greenhouses that produced tons of food and was consumed both in Israel and exported. This was an excellent opportunity for the Palestinians to take over and produce the food for themselves (in reality they destroyed the greenhouses and looted the equipment)

Gaze was FREE. Yes, FREE!

Israel went outside and waited. It warned the PA (Gaza was ruled by Fatah’s PA back then) that now that we’re out, there is no excuses for rockets.

Of course, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Fatah’s Tanzim all fired rockets in order to claim the Israeli had run away and an insult.

Hamas did won the elections in Gaza (mainly as protest vote against corrupt Fatah) and refused to denounce violence, recognize previous agreements and recognize Israel (conditions set by international community for recognizing its government). This cause the siege to begin by Israel, US and the EU, which refused to transfer aid and money to a well known terror organization.

Shortly afterwards a civil war began in Gaza where Hamas slaughtered anyone related to Fatah, which only made most of the world realize how terroristic is the new regime. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_civil_skirmishes for more details)

The last 6 months ‘truce’ had ended last week. During the truce still thousands of rocker were fired, bringing the total number of rockets in the past year to over 3000! Since I’m from Ashkelon I’ve experienced this myself.

The truce ended Wedensday and we had 80+ rockets per day!! – I remind you, this is before the operation. in a few days we had over 300 rockets falling on us and Israel did NOTHING but to warn Hamas.

This rockets are not only ‘home-made’ simple rockets. All the ones reaching Ashkelon and north are Russian GRAD Rockets. they are properly made by Russian weapon factories and are everything but ‘home-made’. Same with mortars. This aren’t ‘home made’ mortars. These are real mortars smuggled to the strip in dozens of tunnels.

After 8 years of constant shelling of rockets and mortars, and a past year with an un-felt truce of 3000+ rockets, Israel said Enough is Enough. And rightly so.

Israel is FAR FAR FAR stronger then Hamas. We have patience and we do want peace, but we cannot tolerate 80 missiles a day!! No one will!! Israel is doing now all it can to obliterate anything that is Hamas in the strip. All police, all armed forces, all Hamas related personnel – they are all legitimate targets (and not civilian).

Hamas had building inside civilian population. Hamas had Rockets storages inside civilian population. Hamas even FIRES rockets from within civilian population. THAT is using human shields! And since the Geneva convention (which the Hamas don’t even care about, mind you) approves firing on these as military targets – Israel decided this time the gloves are off – and they bombed those places too.

I’m sorry for civilians hurt but the blame is 100% on Hamas. And you’ll notice half the world agrees with that as well. You are welcome to search YouTube and see how Hamas fire rockets from schools and houses’ roofs. The blood of the surrounded civilians is totally on their hands.

Hamas has to understand that they can NEVER compete with israel on who can do the most damage. Israel can win EVERYTIME. This means that the only way is to TALK. Talk talk talk. Agree, disagree, whatever. But it has no milli-chance of beating Israel militarily.

The only reasonable objective of the shooting by Hamas is to make Israel retaliate, kill people and use their bodies and Propaganda in the media “look what the evil Zionist are doing to us!!” This means Hamas is deliberately wants innocent Palestinians killed. Blood Merchants.

Hamas is even making things worse by not saying Ok, lets talk. It just announcing it will KEEP firing rockets and wants Israel to attack even more by getting inside on the ground.

Hamas have ABSOLUTELY no care for Palestinian lives. All it cares about is the “resistance” and his “honor” as mujaheedin. For all it cares, all the Palestinians will die as long as they die fighting. You see? It doesn’t want pals to *live in peace* it wants them *to die fighting*!

And it certainly looks like he’s about to get his way, with all of you supporting it.

Plz . don’t forget , isarel is occupation and performs the worst occupation on earth but it is covered completely by America . They closed the area and the first thing they did , they bombed the only satellite channel in Gaza . they don’t want the people to see the atrocities in Gaza.

Five daughters were killed after f 16 struck a mosque, the daughters the eldest is 14 year old and the youngest is three year old girl. they were all in pieces. To their “Israeli “stigma , the mosque is empty , no hamas men no weapons and nothing there

Pls. tell me 60 f 16 fighters strike Gaza at the time of the school children leave their schools , the result is 300 killed and one thousand injured. We all saw the bodies of the children in the streets . are they carrying weapons in their school bags?

If all you mean is that the argument is erroneous then just say so!

If Americans want to go to Israel and weep and complain because they chose to move to a country with a recent history of violent conflict or worse into an actual war zone, I don’t have any sympathy for them. If they want to live in peace, come back to America where they have a home, citizenship, equality and a country to welcome them.

The issue of legality is simple: The Geneva Conventions prohibit the movement of a country’s citizenry into another land it occupies. “West Bank Mama” is a self-declared illegal settler who has absolutely no legal right to live in her house, no legal right to restitution if she needs to be removed from it to make peace. Israelis on the Golan are illegal settlers, too. Israelis in Ariel, French Hill and any of the other “neighborhoods” of East Jerusalem are illegal settlers. Israel uses them and their children as human shields.

Mexico attacking U.S. border towns? Talk about “straw man.”

I’m only asking to hear from Israelis who don’t have an escape valve and who see their only future being in the land where they were born. These American settlers will just leave and come back to America when their unjust privileges are challenged and taken away. They have the privilege take pride in the myth of heroic war, because when it gets ugly, they will just leave!