“نعت صحفي عراقي الرئيس الأميركي جورج بوش الذي حل في زيارة مفاجئة ببغداد خلال مؤتمر صحفي بأنه “كلب” باللغة العربية وصوب حذاءه تجاهه دون أن يصيب هدفه.” http://aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/690310D7-51A2-41FB-A175-34678C4CA784.htm

-أندريه, http://www.myarabicstories.com

You keep rambling and rambling about politics and history which shows that you are informed. There is no need to go on about your appreciation of Jeffersonian democracy (I guess you knew that he owned slaves and his democracy was intended for white landowers right??) Anyway that beside the point. While your narrative of the democracy is OK you keep avoiding anwsering a simple question that yourself made a claim about which is: “that democratic forces in arab nations should wake up…” if you believe that there are democratic forces in arab world, then name them, describe them. Where are they? instead you try to avoid the question by attacking me for misrepresenting your claims. All I hear and read from the Arab world is a return to Sharia laws or a quazi-model for it to help solve some pressing problems. And you telling me that there are democratic forces at play somewhere in the Arab world. Where? Are these the religious moderate who wants some forms of Sharia laws to co-exist with secular western style democracy? Is that what it is? Be strainghtforward and answer the question.

All I did in my previous comment is to show you some simple pre-requesites for democracy to emerge. All this was because you stated that you like the european style parlamentary system than the republican system in America. Which is Ok? However, we are talking about Arab countries. You might like it yes, but is this system feasible in the Arab world. My pre-requisites show that it can, only if the arab nations meet those criteria. If not then why ramnble about Jeffersonian democracy or city hall democracy, world politics and other unrelated rubbish talk talk. That’s the reason why your claims are grounded in wishful thinking and ideals instead of reality and facts on the ground.

I asked you a simple question and you dodged it again. I am afraid there is no need to debate because you do not know what you are talking about.

I happen to differ with this theory totally. What I am saying that radical changes can happen in violent ways, a one time historical event. In other words events like the French Revolution, Bolshevism, The fall of the Berlin Wall, The fall of communism, the rise of the NAZI party, Kemal Attaturk,etc are just events that reshape society in one time historical contest. Most East-European and Asian Democracies today do not have a democratic past. Most of them were Feudal societies and after the Bolshevik revolution totalitarian regimes.

Also, he is saying tat the west responsibility to positively and genuinely contribute to the democratisation of Arab countries is simply a way of laying the blame of our collective failure on the door of somebody else. I am saying that the west “Civilisational Mission” claims and high moral humanist values are not supported by the reality of their diplomacy. They preach one thing and do another.
Wael Abbas and millions like him around the Arab world find themselves in this moral dilemma and intellectual limbo.
One of the most challenging questions that Arab democratic movements will face in the future is the formulation of the type of democracy they aspire to. This dialogue is so pivotal at this juncture in history that a close look is required to solve this conundrum. Not to talk about it under any pretext is just not an option.

• The Irony is that I lean more towards a Jeffersonian Democracy, but ours not like the one in Iraq now or the democraturs America supports around the world.
• I thank you for enlightening me about the requirement of a democracy but this was neither the forum nor the place to go into the mechanics of it, and FYI great endeavours always start from small ideas and become great dreams. We need to start somewhere.
• Please refrain of making an omelette of different issues. We are not talking about individuals so please do not personalise the issue.
• If you have any strong resentment or sympathies for the plight of a particular cause or ethnic group, I wish you all the best and believe me any person with some level of decency should do that too. However, there are many other forums where such subject matter could be discussed.
• Please, do not misrepresent what I have said by adding, spinning, or massaging facts. I would like to let you know that I have always been an admirer of American democracy and its political institutions. However, that does not mean that I should agree all the time with all their policies (mainly foreign policy), and to be fair to me I am not the only one who feels like that about the present direction of US. I did not know that Copt Neo-cons existed.
• What is Naïve is to think that the US foreign policy is based solely on ideological considerations. The Anglo-Saxon diplomacy is extremely pragmatic and yes sometimes even Machiavellian to the extreme. However, the Bush clan confused Machiavelli with exporting tyranny.
• Yes, you would not know about Arab democratic forces because firstly they are not given the time of day by western media and not at all supported by western governments. Democracy brings transparency and accountability and that sometimes could be on collision course with the “American National interest in the region”. To deny the existence of it by just labelling it as a paranoid political reflex is not only irresponsible but intellectually corrupt. These forces are neither fictional nor I am incredulous. You should visit the neo-con forums and listen to their ideological mentors. They sound exactly like the worst fanatical Islamists. They are just another side of the same coin. I deplore and hate any type of fanaticism. While Muslim fundamentalism is vilified in the west, secular (like in Denmark)/Jewish Orthodox (Like in west bank) and Christian Evangelical right (Like those who voted for Bush) go largely unremarked: These groups are used to justify their policies that are as racist, as totalitarian and as xenophobic, as the worst excesses of anti-Semitism. When democracies are bent and start looking like ethnocracies and the rule of law and due process is played with and the burden of proof is shifted so far to one side, true democrats not blinded by hate and prejudice should come out and defend their values. Please, stop using the same semantics used in 1936 (It smells of the 3rd Reich) to describe a Nation that has no say on its destiny. I hate to say this but you sound sometimes like a cross between Richard Pearl and Jean-Marie Le Pen, hiding behind a mask of lamenting the faith of fellow Arabs.
• Does the following names ring a bell: General Pinochet, Hassan II, Mubutu, Amin, Emperors Boccasa , Savimbi, Abacha, Banzer, Batista, Bolkiah, Botha, Branco, Cerezo, Chiang Kai-Shek,Cordova, Christiani,Diem,Doe, The Duvaliers, Franco, Al Saoud, Marcos, Noriega, Martinez, Ozal, Shah of Iran, Papadopoulos, Park Chung Hee,Pol Pot,Rabuka,Suharto,Somoza, Salazar, Montt, Stroessner, Smith,Trujillo, Videla, Salassie,Zia Ul-Haq , to name but a few. Let me see, what do they all have in common?!!! Oops they are all the dictators America supported and helped to stay in Power. A conspiracy theorist you must be joking or deluding yourself.
• I believe in Democracy, National integrity, and Independence.

Finally, if you want an honest debate and a constructive exchange of views, please tone down the rhetoric and provide practical solutions to this mammoth task. Just dismissing a part of humanity by uttering that Arab societies cannot be democratic cannot serve any purpose. In fact it will create a vacuum where the common enemy and islamist treat will flourish.