Actually, I don’t think those news in such websites like aboluowang are not convincible.

P.S. Bob you know who I am.

Looking forward to your reply in my xiaonei.

I did mention brainwashing from both sides for the last 60 years. And after reading your comment about Tibet etc., I know I need to give up and wish you luck. I and many others in and outside of China debated many issues including Tibet before and after the Olympics. This debate died down considerably as many of our western friends, well fed yet ignorant, shifted their focus back to their 401ks. Even our vice president candidate, Sarah Palin doesn’t know Africa is a continent. I am not saying you are one of them. And I respect your persistence with your opinion. But this debate leads to nowhere as the Chinese may know better about themselves than you.

Like I said, the time is not right for referendum. Ma’s campaign of three “No”s reflected this situation. The current development is encouraging. Let Taiwan and mainland work it out. Be patient.

Tibet is part of China and will always be. Dalai can give up all of his outrageous claims and go back to his temple. Or he can remain a fugitive in India.

Mongolia got independent when China was in chaos and Russians forced it upon China. We accepted that and will work with our Mongolia friends.

What East Turkestan? Never was a country, never will in China.

If number of protests are an indicator of democracy, then China will be the one as we have hundreds a day (largest population in the world). If survey indicates the government support, then this shows China has the highest: http://pewglobal.org/reports/pdf/261.pdf. If economic growth is an indicator, then China has been the leader for the last 30 plus years and will be for some time to come. If contribution to world economic growth is an indicator, then China contributes 27% of world economic growth last year, more this year and beyond.

From the perspective of promoting democracy (in whatever form that works) in mainland China, Chen has been a disaster. Democracy as practiced in Taiwan–granted it is young and immature–has impressed many people in mainland China as something not to be taken seriously (think of the physical attacks some legislators indulge in). With his alleged misconduct, Chen has strengthened the stereotype among mainland Chinese that democracy in Taiwan is a farce when the example of democracy in Taiwan could serve as a rallying cry “Yes we can” to people on the other side of the strait who share the same cultural traditions. It is a shame that such a narrow-minded and self-absorbed demagogue like Chen Shui-bien has led Taiwan for so many years. Impartial prosecution of him should help redeem some of the credentials of democracy with the Chinese people at large.

Any way, ideology aside, let Taiwan and mainland have peaceful dialogue a chance to know each other, let the people from both sides of the strait work more closely together to fight this global economic storm. Let brothers be brothers and sisters be sisters and let’s reject those who want to divide us.

Anyway your beliefs seem completely unfounded and biased firstly. Where exactly do you get this idea that there is a universal befief amongst the people of Taiwan that they want to be part of the P.R.C. If that really is the case why did President Ma campaign on the principle
of “No Unification” and “No independence” If there really was evidence of widespread desire to be a vassal of the P.R.C. then surely the K.M.T and President Ma would have campaigned on the principle of “Yes to imminent unification”. So why didn’t Ma campaign on the principle of unification??? Surely the best way to find out what the Taiwanese want is for them to have a referendum as opposed to allowing the C.C.P to decide for them. I guess if they did have a referendum in Taiwan which indicated a desire for independence it would be most convenient for you to decide it as irrational. So on what basis exactly do you claim to know what the people in Taiwan want?

You speak of D.D.P brain washing but forget to mention C.C.P brainwashing do your really believe that the P.R.C has a freer media or greater freedom of speach than Taiwan like I said Taiwan is ranked 30th while the P.R.C
is ranked well over a hundred places behind. According to Reporters Without Borders (RWB) which is also critical of the U.S.A before you claim that RWB is a lackey of the U.S.A

Anyway I find it completely farcical that you speak of D.P.P brainwashing but fail to mention C.C.P brainwashing. I see far more evidence of brainwashing in the P.R.C than in Taiwan. For example it is easy to see numerous media mocking and criticising both green and blue parties along with their policies. There is no such variety of expressin allowed in the P.R.C. all the state controlled media does there is pump out the same repetitive message of how great the government is and how much everyone loves the C.C.P and that everyone is happy being part of the P.R.C. which is kind of akin to brainwashing.

Anyway if you look at the number of protests that were allowed during the D.D.P’s reign against the then President Chen then you would have to logically conclude that there is a greater expression of a greater variety of ideas than in the P.R.C. I mean do you serioiusly think people in the P.R.C could so openly criticise Chairman Hu and the C.C.P. Anyway under the D.P.P varying political groups in Taiwan were given immensely greater freedom to express various political opinions including pro-unification that would be unimaginable than in the P.R.C. Ask yourself what is more likely for someone in Taiwan under the D.D.P to be allowed to express pro unification sentiment or someone in the P.R.C to openly speak of genuine autonomy for Tibet, East Turkestan or Inner Mongolia. If you have any sense you would agree that accusing the D.D.P of brainwashing while claiming the C.C.P is innocent of such charges defies logic.

In regards to the D.D.P’s lack of sincerity in the welfare of the Taiwanese people. Who was it that prevented Taiwan from accessing the World Health Organisation during the S.A.Rs epidemic and endangered not only the health and safety of the people of Taiwan but also the greater Asian Pacific region. That’s right the C.C.P whom decided that forcing Taiwan to yield their self determination was more important than protecting them from the SARs epidemic.

Anyway like I said ethnicity and custom does not equate to nationality. Like I said if “culture religion and language” form the basis of forming a nation state then logically the Innner Mongolia should be joined with the Republic of Mongolia as they have the same “culture religion and language”

Finally the R.O.C constitution is completely archaic as it includes the Republic of Mongolia, parts of the central Asian states and Russia so to use it as a point of reference is completely irrelevant. Remember Taiwan was never governed as part of the R.O.C proper anyway

same culture, food, language, doesn’t matter
Americans and the British has the same language, but they are different country, in fact, the language Taiwanese originated from cave-man chinese thought it was influenced by Japanese during WWII and many other factors.

“Guo Yu” means “national language” if u r referring to “G-on wen” then its different, but then again, two countries can share a language, just like Britain and America, Spain with Latin America, and Portugal with Brazil. Well, then Canada is shared between France and Britain……Not to mention the middle east where most people know Arabic but doesn’t make all of them the same country.

Both the president and the police forces violated the constitution, they should be tried in court.

If Taiwanese people are considered to be “Chinese” because of DNA, and inheritance, then America should be considered to be the United States of England (or Britain). Taiwan has their own Constitution, president, laws, and even military. China does not tax, rule or protect Taiwan, they do not have rightful rule over Taiwan.

The one you referred to sounds like a DPP propaganda. I am not really trust that one. Try to read this one:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan.

There are some things that you need to realize:

1. If you have seen the map of the ROC, you should know that ROC includes the whole of China, just like a map of PRC. Both sides are still technically at war with the same goal of unifying China.

2. Both sides share the same culture, religion and language. They enjoy the same food, the same leisure and even the same joke. The Taiwanese language is one of the dialects on Mainland. Guo Yu is the mandarin used on Mainland. Every dialect in Taiwan are from mainland with the exception of the 2% minority. The written language is the same.

3. Only a few years ago most of the people considered themselves Chinese. But recently more people consider themselves Taiwanese. This is not because their ethnic status has changed. This is due to DPP’s brainwash as evidenced in the file you refer to.

4. Huamns share 98% of Chromosomes with Chimpanzee. The DNA analysis has little to do with the topic at hand.

5. I think referendum is not an option at least for the time being. As I said, both sides have been at war for the past 60 years with the same goal of unifying China. Why nothing has been achieved, both sides have tried their best to vilify each other. So a referendum now will only generate irrational results. The current development is encouraging. Both sides should engage and be friends from now on. Maybe after another 60 years, may be less, people can really decide what to do to solve the issue. Only then can people really make a decision not based on emotion, but rationality.

The DPP is scared to death of the current development because they have a blind goal of independence. They don’t care the well being of the people. If they dare to declare independence, I am sure they are the ones who run out of Taiwan the fastest.

“The human leukocyte antigen typing study and mitochondrion DNA analysis performed in recent years show that more than 88% of the benshengren population have some degree of aboriginal origin (Sim 2003).”

I have also spoken to a Taiwanese girl and she voiced the same opinion regarding the wide spread presence of malayo-polynesina DNA amongst the Taiwanese population. So there you are Charlie that fact is as sound as ever.

What’s more Charlie I found another direct quotation from Wikipedia backing up my statement about the ongoing development of a collective Taiwanese national identity. See below

“In a poll released in December 2006 by the Straits Exchange Foundation (SEF), 57% of people on Taiwan consider themselves to be Taiwanese. 23% Chinese and 20% both Chinese and Taiwanese (China Post, 2006). The sense of a collective Taiwanese identity has continued to increase despite fluctuations in support for pro-independence political parties. This has been cited as evidence that the concept of Taiwanese identity is not the product of local political manipulation, but an actual phenomenon of ethnic and sociopolitical identities (Corcuff 2002:137-149, 207; Hsiao 2003:157-170).”

Once again Charlie my claims are rock solid. Like I said it is your information which seems to be based on blind indoctrination and self opinionated arrogance.

I find your ongoing insistance that “it is the unflinching desire of the overwhelming majority of Taiwanese to be united with the Chinese motherland” pure comedy. I mean lets face it if this really was true it would make perfect sense for the C.C.P. to encourage the Taiwanese to hold a internationally monitored binding referendum on their future. With the C.C.P. not resorting to threats, inimidation or economic blackmail.

So ask yourself why is the C.C.P so against giving the Taiwanese be given a clear choice on their own future? I could undermine more of your unfounded claims but I really need to go now.

If DPP (provided they would be back in power) declares independence, then everybody knows what is going to happen. Chinese people are doing whatever they can to prevent this from happening. Only some brainwashed laggards and enemies of Chinese will promote hatred between the two sides and an eventual war. These people ignore the consensus of the international community and the will of 1.3 billion Chinese people. You say: they are still fighting, I say: why fight, let’s talk.

LOL anytime I hear people mentioning free-press brain wash, I automatically think of CNN, Creepy Network News!

Your logic is simplistic. Ethnicity does not equate to nationality. If if did the Mongolians in Inner Mongolia would form a single Mongolian nation with the Mongolians in the Republic of Mongolia. While the Uyghar in East Turkestan would form a single Turkmen nation with all the other Turkic countries. Anyway 80% of the Taiwanese who where Taiwan before 1949 have Malayo Polynesian blood which sets them apart.

Anyway the concept of a nation is a very subjective term dependant on the individual. The concept of a nation is bound to a sense of shared struggle and origin. The Taiwanese could be argued have their narrative of national identity in their sense of struggle with foreign oppression which has being heightened with ongoing Chinese aggression. Anyway when exactly was Taiwan under the effective rule of any Chinese dynasty.

I happened to be in Taiwan last week and eyewitness the crime of a democracy being slowly murdered. Which is a huge loss to the world.

To all the countries, organizations and associations who consider themselves to be the guardian of the democracy, please help the voice of Taiwan to be heard. Let me give you a few facts that I witnessesed last week. I saw people could be questioned, beaten up and/or arrested by policemen merely doing the folloiwng:
1) Waving the country flag
2) Speaking their mind
3) Walking on the street wearing clothes with the print of “I am Taiwanese” or in green
4) Playing music in the store
5) Staying in a paid-for hotel room with different opinion on their mind

The people in Taiwan are still fighting to maintain its sovereignty and world should not forget about them.

Thank you. Doris

Brain wash can be a powerful tool. Over the years, the Christians have been brain washed to believe Jews are evil and the killer of Christ. So the genocide of Jews had little sympathy in the west. China is one of the few countries that helped them. Now the people are brain washed to believe Muslim in general are bad. This will produce some tensions, even wars in the future. We should thank the “free press” for the on going brain wash.

So what if the thuggish DPP party gets their way? They need to know that Sun Tzu has many ways to win a war. As others quoted Chairman Mao: Power comes from the barrel of a gun. If talk doesn’t work, you have to be prepared for the alternative. This is true even for China. So there is nothing wrong to be prepared although it should be the absolute last resort. For now, let’s be patient and let the people have the chance to know each other after years of brain washing.

The current DPP chairwoman said that, the violence (injured about 150 policemen and many others) last week during their demonstration was committed by thugs and gangsters. I think she is right because many of DPP members are thugs and gangsters. People around the world have been entertained by their fighting on the street and in the legislation Yuan.