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	<title>Comments on: Armenia: Football Diplomacy &amp; Relations with Turkey</title>
	<atom:link href="http://globalvoicesonline.org/2008/09/08/armenia-football-diplomacy-relations-with-turkey/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://globalvoicesonline.org/2008/09/08/armenia-football-diplomacy-relations-with-turkey/</link>
	<description>The world is talking. Are you listening?</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 02:38:48 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Global Voices Online &#187; Turkey: Armenian “Martin Luther King Jr.” Commemorated</title>
		<link>http://globalvoicesonline.org/2008/09/08/armenia-football-diplomacy-relations-with-turkey/comment-page-1/#comment-1547663</link>
		<dc:creator>Global Voices Online &#187; Turkey: Armenian “Martin Luther King Jr.” Commemorated</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:05:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=49696#comment-1547663</guid>
		<description>[...] the historic first visit of the Turkish president to Armenia last year, and an online apology for what most historians [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the historic first visit of the Turkish president to Armenia last year, and an online apology for what most historians [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Global Voices Online &#187; Caucasus: 2008 Blog Review</title>
		<link>http://globalvoicesonline.org/2008/09/08/armenia-football-diplomacy-relations-with-turkey/comment-page-1/#comment-1541491</link>
		<dc:creator>Global Voices Online &#187; Caucasus: 2008 Blog Review</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 19:03:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=49696#comment-1541491</guid>
		<description>[...] but with momentum reported in talks to normalize relations between Armenia and Turkey following a historic visit by Turkish President Abdullah Gul to Yerevan in September, as well as moves to resolve the conflict over Nagorno Karabakh including peace-building [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] but with momentum reported in talks to normalize relations between Armenia and Turkey following a historic visit by Turkish President Abdullah Gul to Yerevan in September, as well as moves to resolve the conflict over Nagorno Karabakh including peace-building [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Global Voices Online &#187; Armenia: Turkish Visitors</title>
		<link>http://globalvoicesonline.org/2008/09/08/armenia-football-diplomacy-relations-with-turkey/comment-page-1/#comment-1515778</link>
		<dc:creator>Global Voices Online &#187; Armenia: Turkish Visitors</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 08:47:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=49696#comment-1515778</guid>
		<description>[...] citizens visited the Genocide Memorial and Museum in Yerevan on the sidelines of this month&#039;s World Cup qualifying football match between Armenia and Turkey. However, as one comment says, it is unclear how many were ethnic Armenians or ethnic Turks. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] citizens visited the Genocide Memorial and Museum in Yerevan on the sidelines of this month&#39;s World Cup qualifying football match between Armenia and Turkey. However, as one comment says, it is unclear how many were ethnic Armenians or ethnic Turks. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Global Voices Online &#187; Armenia: Relations with Turkey &#8212; What Next?</title>
		<link>http://globalvoicesonline.org/2008/09/08/armenia-football-diplomacy-relations-with-turkey/comment-page-1/#comment-1513010</link>
		<dc:creator>Global Voices Online &#187; Armenia: Relations with Turkey &#8212; What Next?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:23:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=49696#comment-1513010</guid>
		<description>[...] the historic visit by Turkish president Abdullah Gul to Yerevan at the weekend to watch an Armenia-Turkey World Cup qualifying match with his local counterpart, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the historic visit by Turkish president Abdullah Gul to Yerevan at the weekend to watch an Armenia-Turkey World Cup qualifying match with his local counterpart, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Armenia &#38; the South Caucasus &#124; The Caucasian Knot &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Armenia: Football Diplomacy &#38; Relations with Turkey</title>
		<link>http://globalvoicesonline.org/2008/09/08/armenia-football-diplomacy-relations-with-turkey/comment-page-1/#comment-1512267</link>
		<dc:creator>Armenia &#38; the South Caucasus &#124; The Caucasian Knot &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Armenia: Football Diplomacy &#38; Relations with Turkey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 10:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=49696#comment-1512267</guid>
		<description>[...] The full post is available on Global Voices Online. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The full post is available on Global Voices Online. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Onnik Krikorian</title>
		<link>http://globalvoicesonline.org/2008/09/08/armenia-football-diplomacy-relations-with-turkey/comment-page-1/#comment-1512231</link>
		<dc:creator>Onnik Krikorian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 08:24:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=49696#comment-1512231</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The Armenian Genocide (Armenian: Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն, Turkish: Ermeni Soykırımı), &lt;b&gt;also known&lt;/b&gt; as the Armenian Holocaust, &lt;b&gt;the Armenian Massacres&lt;/b&gt; and, by Armenians, the Great Calamity (Մեծ Եղեռն)—refers to the deliberate and systematic destruction (genocide) of the Armenian population of the Ottoman Empire during and just after World War I. It was characterised by the use of &lt;b&gt;massacres, and the use of deportations&lt;/b&gt; involving forced marches under conditions designed to lead to the death of the deportees, with the total number of Armenian deaths generally held to have been between one and one-and-a-half million. Other ethnic groups were similarly attacked by the Empire during this period, including Assyrians and Greeks, and some scholars consider the events to be part of the same policy of extermination.[&lt;/blockquote&gt;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

Interestingly, many international media outlets used other words -- &lt;a href=&quot;http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/8530920/Turkey-beats-Armenia-2-0-in-World-Cup-qualifier?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&amp;ATT=2740&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Associated press said&lt;/a&gt; &quot;WWI-era atrocities that began in 1915,&quot; for example, while &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/eav090508.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;EurasiaNet says&lt;/a&gt; &quot;Ottoman Turkey’s 1915 slaughter of thousands of ethnic Armenians.&quot; When space and time permits, the international media can objectively spell out the issue in more detail as &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nasdaq.com/aspxcontent/NewsStory.aspx?cpath=20080906\ACQDJON200809061732DOWJONESDJONLINE000394.htm&amp;&amp;mypage=newsheadlines&amp;title=Turkey,%20Armenia%20Agree%20Political%20Will%20Exists%20To%20Improve%20Ties&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Reuters did&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Abdullah Gul held talks with Armenian counterpart Serzh Sarkisian after which the two agreed there was now the &quot;political will&quot; to improve relations frozen for decades by lingering bitterness over 1915-1917 massacres.

[...]

 Armenians say up to 1.5 million of their people were killed between 1915 and 1917 in orchestrated massacres during World War I as the Ottoman Empire fell apart - a claim supported by several other countries.

Turkey rejects the genocide label and argues that 300,000-500,000 Armenians and at least as many Turks died in civil strife when Armenians took up arms for independence in eastern Anatolia and sided with invading Russian troops.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Or as they did in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.canada.com/theprovince/story.html?id=9c9217aa-ebfb-487e-9b56-cadfa256089f&amp;k=54473&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this news item&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The visit has huge symbolic importance for two countries which have no diplomatic ties and whose relationship is haunted by the killings of hundreds of thousands of Armenians in Ottoman Turkey during World War One.

[...]

Armenia, supported by many Western historians, says up to 1.5 million of its people were killed in a genocide. Turkey denies there was genocide and says the deaths were the result of inter-ethnic conflict that also killed many Muslim Turks.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7596768.stm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the BBC&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Turkey has rejected Armenia&#039;s campaign for the killings of some 1.5m of its citizens, by Ottoman Turks between 1915 and 1917, to be classified as genocide.

More than a dozen countries, various international bodies and many Western historians have recognised the killings as genocide.

Turkey admits that many Armenians were killed but it denies any genocide, saying the deaths were a part of World War I.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

But ultimately, Global Voices Online is not about supporting one side or the other. It is about referring to posts made by others. Therefore, in addition to the matter of time constraints as well as space, there is plenty of reference material linked to from this post -- and not just on the Genocide, but also on Hrant Dink&#039;s murder.

There is also this comments section which is meant for discussion, but ultimately, click through the links. This post is about reaction and commentary on the football match, the background to which can be found by clicking through.

Indeed, there&#039;s far greater information on the matter linked to from this post than in anything written in the international media. You just need to use your mouse. Nevertheless, I&#039;ve now added the following.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Armenians and many historians consider the killings to be Genocide while Turkey denies the claims.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Again, I suggest everyone clicks through on the links for more detailed information and a summary of what people think on the matter. 




</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The Armenian Genocide (Armenian: Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն, Turkish: Ermeni Soykırımı), <b>also known</b> as the Armenian Holocaust, <b>the Armenian Massacres</b> and, by Armenians, the Great Calamity (Մեծ Եղեռն)—refers to the deliberate and systematic destruction (genocide) of the Armenian population of the Ottoman Empire during and just after World War I. It was characterised by the use of <b>massacres, and the use of deportations</b> involving forced marches under conditions designed to lead to the death of the deportees, with the total number of Armenian deaths generally held to have been between one and one-and-a-half million. Other ethnic groups were similarly attacked by the Empire during this period, including Assyrians and Greeks, and some scholars consider the events to be part of the same policy of extermination.[</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide</a></p>
<p>Interestingly, many international media outlets used other words -- <a href="http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/8530920/Turkey-beats-Armenia-2-0-in-World-Cup-qualifier?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&#038;ATT=2740" rel="nofollow">The Associated press said</a> "WWI-era atrocities that began in 1915," for example, while <a href="http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/eav090508.shtml" rel="nofollow">EurasiaNet says</a> "Ottoman Turkey’s 1915 slaughter of thousands of ethnic Armenians." When space and time permits, the international media can objectively spell out the issue in more detail as <a href="http://www.nasdaq.com/aspxcontent/NewsStory.aspx?cpath=20080906\ACQDJON200809061732DOWJONESDJONLINE000394.htm&#038;&#038;mypage=newsheadlines&#038;title=Turkey,%20Armenia%20Agree%20Political%20Will%20Exists%20To%20Improve%20Ties" rel="nofollow">Reuters did</a>.</p>
<blockquote><p>Abdullah Gul held talks with Armenian counterpart Serzh Sarkisian after which the two agreed there was now the "political will" to improve relations frozen for decades by lingering bitterness over 1915-1917 massacres.</p>
<p>[...]</p>
<p> Armenians say up to 1.5 million of their people were killed between 1915 and 1917 in orchestrated massacres during World War I as the Ottoman Empire fell apart &#8211; a claim supported by several other countries.</p>
<p>Turkey rejects the genocide label and argues that 300,000-500,000 Armenians and at least as many Turks died in civil strife when Armenians took up arms for independence in eastern Anatolia and sided with invading Russian troops.</p></blockquote>
<p>Or as they did in <a href="http://www.canada.com/theprovince/story.html?id=9c9217aa-ebfb-487e-9b56-cadfa256089f&#038;k=54473" rel="nofollow">this news item</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>The visit has huge symbolic importance for two countries which have no diplomatic ties and whose relationship is haunted by the killings of hundreds of thousands of Armenians in Ottoman Turkey during World War One.</p>
<p>[...]</p>
<p>Armenia, supported by many Western historians, says up to 1.5 million of its people were killed in a genocide. Turkey denies there was genocide and says the deaths were the result of inter-ethnic conflict that also killed many Muslim Turks.</p></blockquote>
<p>And <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7596768.stm" rel="nofollow">the BBC</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>Turkey has rejected Armenia&#8217;s campaign for the killings of some 1.5m of its citizens, by Ottoman Turks between 1915 and 1917, to be classified as genocide.</p>
<p>More than a dozen countries, various international bodies and many Western historians have recognised the killings as genocide.</p>
<p>Turkey admits that many Armenians were killed but it denies any genocide, saying the deaths were a part of World War I.</p></blockquote>
<p>But ultimately, Global Voices Online is not about supporting one side or the other. It is about referring to posts made by others. Therefore, in addition to the matter of time constraints as well as space, there is plenty of reference material linked to from this post &#8212; and not just on the Genocide, but also on Hrant Dink&#8217;s murder.</p>
<p>There is also this comments section which is meant for discussion, but ultimately, click through the links. This post is about reaction and commentary on the football match, the background to which can be found by clicking through.</p>
<p>Indeed, there&#8217;s far greater information on the matter linked to from this post than in anything written in the international media. You just need to use your mouse. Nevertheless, I&#8217;ve now added the following.</p>
<blockquote><p>Armenians and many historians consider the killings to be Genocide while Turkey denies the claims.</p></blockquote>
<p>Again, I suggest everyone clicks through on the links for more detailed information and a summary of what people think on the matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Onnik Krikorian</title>
		<link>http://globalvoicesonline.org/2008/09/08/armenia-football-diplomacy-relations-with-turkey/comment-page-1/#comment-1512224</link>
		<dc:creator>Onnik Krikorian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 08:10:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=49696#comment-1512224</guid>
		<description>Simon (Blogian), it becomes that at 5am in the morning when I&#039;m not able to write additional sentences and paragraphs explaining the issue and instead have a link on those words that leads to...

&lt;blockquote&gt;Armenia: April 24 — Genocide Memorial Day

Yesterday marked the 93rd Anniversary of the Armenian Genocide and the deaths of approximately 1.5 million Armenians in Ottoman Turkey. Often described as the first Genocide of the 20th Century, the Polish lawyer Raphael Lemkin invented the term in the 1940s with the Armenian and Jewish Holocausts in mind.

Every year on 24 April, a date marking the roundup of Armenian intellectuals and community leaders in what is now Istanbul, Armenians commemorate the massacres and deportations worldwide. In Yerevan, this is particularly the case with hundreds of thousands marching up to the Tsitsernakaberd memorial overlooking the capital to lay flowers and pay their respects.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2008/04/25/armenia-april-24-genocide-memorial-day/

Basically, when I&#039;ve been going to bed at 7am each morning for the past few nights because of the match and the visit, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s too much to expect people to click through for more information if they don&#039;t already actually know. Interestingly, I&#039;ve used this term before and never had such a response.

So, I suppose it just goes to show how sensitive some are to Gul&#039;s visit to Armenia. Anyway, in the days of hyperlinks, can I suggest you click through in future. This post is not about putting the Armenian argument as part of a war of words. It&#039;s about putting a lot of information and commentary a mouse-click away.

Apologies for not being able to please all of the people all of the time, but there&#039;s plenty of references to the Genocide spelt out as such on most of the posts linked to -- including those by myself. This post was already too long for Global Voices Online without spelling out every single issue. 

Instead, that&#039;s what the source posts are there for. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simon (Blogian), it becomes that at 5am in the morning when I&#8217;m not able to write additional sentences and paragraphs explaining the issue and instead have a link on those words that leads to&#8230;</p>
<blockquote><p>Armenia: April 24 — Genocide Memorial Day</p>
<p>Yesterday marked the 93rd Anniversary of the Armenian Genocide and the deaths of approximately 1.5 million Armenians in Ottoman Turkey. Often described as the first Genocide of the 20th Century, the Polish lawyer Raphael Lemkin invented the term in the 1940s with the Armenian and Jewish Holocausts in mind.</p>
<p>Every year on 24 April, a date marking the roundup of Armenian intellectuals and community leaders in what is now Istanbul, Armenians commemorate the massacres and deportations worldwide. In Yerevan, this is particularly the case with hundreds of thousands marching up to the Tsitsernakaberd memorial overlooking the capital to lay flowers and pay their respects.</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2008/04/25/armenia-april-24-genocide-memorial-day/" rel="nofollow">http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2008/04/25/armenia-april-24-genocide-memorial-day/</a></p>
<p>Basically, when I&#8217;ve been going to bed at 7am each morning for the past few nights because of the match and the visit, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s too much to expect people to click through for more information if they don&#8217;t already actually know. Interestingly, I&#8217;ve used this term before and never had such a response.</p>
<p>So, I suppose it just goes to show how sensitive some are to Gul&#8217;s visit to Armenia. Anyway, in the days of hyperlinks, can I suggest you click through in future. This post is not about putting the Armenian argument as part of a war of words. It&#8217;s about putting a lot of information and commentary a mouse-click away.</p>
<p>Apologies for not being able to please all of the people all of the time, but there&#8217;s plenty of references to the Genocide spelt out as such on most of the posts linked to &#8212; including those by myself. This post was already too long for Global Voices Online without spelling out every single issue. </p>
<p>Instead, that&#8217;s what the source posts are there for.</p>
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		<title>By: Blogian</title>
		<link>http://globalvoicesonline.org/2008/09/08/armenia-football-diplomacy-relations-with-turkey/comment-page-1/#comment-1512123</link>
		<dc:creator>Blogian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 02:38:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=49696#comment-1512123</guid>
		<description>when did genocide become &quot;massacre and deportation,&quot; Onnik?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>when did genocide become &#8220;massacre and deportation,&#8221; Onnik?</p>
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		<title>By: West of Igdir</title>
		<link>http://globalvoicesonline.org/2008/09/08/armenia-football-diplomacy-relations-with-turkey/comment-page-1/#comment-1512122</link>
		<dc:creator>West of Igdir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 02:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://globalvoicesonline.org/?p=49696#comment-1512122</guid>
		<description>Thank you for your references to my blog and your intelligent round-up as always on blogging about this issue. I do agree the game itself was rather boring but the political undertones (or more like over) a far more exciting component for me and I think most. Wow do our guys need to get in shape if they hope to win some. 
I wish more Turks such as the officials who had wanted to go were able but I understand why they were urged to keep away. I also have heard rumor (which I believe) that many tickets were purposely not sold since Armenian security crowd control is notoriously awful at these games. It&#039;s hard to know what will come next but I believe developments should be relatively quick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your references to my blog and your intelligent round-up as always on blogging about this issue. I do agree the game itself was rather boring but the political undertones (or more like over) a far more exciting component for me and I think most. Wow do our guys need to get in shape if they hope to win some.<br />
I wish more Turks such as the officials who had wanted to go were able but I understand why they were urged to keep away. I also have heard rumor (which I believe) that many tickets were purposely not sold since Armenian security crowd control is notoriously awful at these games. It&#8217;s hard to know what will come next but I believe developments should be relatively quick.</p>
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