怎样纪念我们的洪武大帝?应该这样

怎样纪念我们的洪武大帝?我建议在故宫里雕一座他迎风挺立的石像,然后在他石像面前再放上清朝所有黄帝的跪地石像,向他跪拜请罪.每一个游客都可以朝那些跪地的清代黄帝们吐口水!我呸!
作者： 222.69.129.*

2008-7-31 19:06 　 回复此发

@ali baba,
What is your surname then ?

了解世界历史的人就应该知道，西欧的发展是从15，16世纪开始的，也就是明末清初，对清朝我一开始觉得还不错，后来感到是清朝的200多年历史酿成了近代以来中华民族最屈辱的历史，满人压制汉人，闭关自守，不求上进，很多近代以来的恶习和紧固思想的东西被留了下来，那些封建社会没落的腐朽的东西被遗留下来。我很恨清朝对后来人们心里造成的影响。其实那些东西根本不是中华民族的精华，是垃圾是糟粕，是封建没落的体现，回想汉唐盛世，女人骑马踏青很正常，而清朝呢，女的裹足不前，闺门紧闭，四门不出。而科技文化有宋代的“四大发明”吗，有明朝的郑和下西洋的威风吗，没有！没有！终日闭关，自以为比天高。最后半个世纪出了个学女皇的叶赫那拉，连文字都写不全，比得上女皇吗，她不配，她差远了，无论是文采还是治国哪一样比得上？！
我们应记住近代的耻辱，但我们应了解中华民族的精神，并真正发扬光大，不是满清几百年所书写的禁锢人心的历史。

James and Chan,
Before the invention of WWW,information is only obtainable in Big libraries.And how many of us would put up with the troubles of going into a library to read books?
Internet,and the information revolution has changed all these(Unless you live inside China,of course)
Since I was young,nearly all the movies I watched,康熙、雍正、乾隆
were all great emperors,康熙大帝, 乾隆三下江南,were all about 仁君, 盛世 .Lies,Lies,Lies.We were all being force- feeded with lies for too long.
Manchu rulers were warlords,slave owners.And Han were regarded as slaves,sometime as cattle.
我们应记住近代的耻辱，但我们应了解中华民族的精神，并真正发扬光大，不是满清几百年所书写的禁锢人心的历史。
James and Chan,中华兒女 再放光芒 !

they only pick on china to find faults nothing else. coz americans are the haters!! because they are jealous of china being strong and powerful! and how they beat america in gold medals hahahaa..

James,and Chan,WE ARE HAN 漢族,our common ancestors once had glorious past,had great civilization while others still lived in the jungle.
But if we all choose to ignore,and forget what had the Mongols and the Manchu did to us,and to humanity as a whole,we might as well 認賊作父 ,calling robbers and murderers our fathers.

food for thought: when kosovo separates from serbia to declare independence through popular voting, the reaction from the west was mixed, but largely in favor of their independence. notice where the lines are drawn. spain in opposition, US in favor etc. why?

however when the ethnic russians in south ossetia whom are the majority want independence from georgia, the west overwhelmingly condemns it. why? because georgia is pro west, and wants to join NATO and EU ?

back to china: if indeed tibet is to be separated from PRC, it is because by allowing it to happen, this best serves the national interest of PRC. simple as that. it is not a triumph of human rights. it is a carefully weighted decision on the balancing scale of national interest.

i have 2 points to make

wei xiao bao and jing yong and why i think jing yong should not be unduly judged on his works of fiction

and the talk by 冯崇义, how human rights supersede national sovereignty (人权高于主权）

first point:

jing yong has 2 main areas of literary works, i suppose, his social commentaries and his works of wuxia fiction.

i have read all of his wuxia novels, but none of his social commentaries, which is most unfortunate.

from a literature perspective, to depict someone like guo jing or xiao feng as heroes as main characters of a story, it is easy. to paint a character like wei xiaobao as a main character is damn hard. what is there to love of him? let digress a little and talk about 2 movies: the godfather trilogy and 色诫。godfather is rated by some in the west as the movie of all time, while se jie is an oscar winning movie. yet it is condemned in PRC as popularising 汉奸．is it really?

and back to wei xiaobao. in my opinion, there is even less to love of him than michael corleone in godfather. but i do remember when i was young and first read ludingji, i was in awe of all he has achieved. when i read it older, i was adamant how someone like him can rise so far? the third time? i asked myself is it really his fault that he is such? or is it the society then? and what does it reflect on the sovereign of that time? can the qing dynasty really be called great?

work of fiction is not historically accurately, and many times, done purposely so as to deliver a point. romance of the 3 kingdoms paint cao cao as a traitorous tyrant (胁天子已令诸侯）　to contrast him with liu bei, zhuge liang as omnipotent while zhou yu as a hypocritical opponent (周郎妙计安天下，赔了夫人又折兵）．　romance is nonetheless one of the 4 great chinese literary works.

it is true that the most evil of people have a good side, which we can see very clearly in michael corleone. his relentless protection of his family in the beginning, when he does not even condone the mafia business his family is in, to eventually evolving into someone that will resort to whatsoever means to strengthen his stranglehold on the family business, including killing his own elder brother. there is a saying, absolute power corrupts absolutely, how true indeed. it is in the wise reader to discern good and bad, and ask ourselves how we will choose when in similar situations.

2nd point: 人权高于主权

let us first say that modern day human rights really kickstarted during the america and french revolutions. this i think is indisputable. before that, it was not a mainstream school of thoughts in the western societies. during that time, the king rules his country through the mandate of GOD, and it is GOD’s will that he serves. that was the mainstream doctrine that helps subjugate his people, so to speak. There is much information on these on the internet. Or you can just simply visit europe to see it for yourself, in the architecture of that time. here, i am trying to emphasise that doctrines/philosophies like these “oscillate” in importance in the entire history of western civilizations, between god fearing/god serving to emphasis on our earthly existence and the condition of our existence. and in my opinion, they work to do the same thing, to serve the rule of the State, regardless of how it may evolved, be it a monarchy, democrat government, or communist. on the side, do note that china is not communist now at all. hence, as such, how can human rights supersede national sovereignty when it serves the State?

cite a few examples:

guantanamo. in the name of national security, hundreds of terrorist suspects are detained and tortured, and US is the single biggest advocate of human rights.

australia: i still remember when an australian was sentence to death for drug trafficking, the australian government wrote to the singapore government for a pardon of the death penalty, on human right grounds. why are they all quiet then, when indonesian terrorists were sentenced to death in the indonesian supreme court when found guilty of plotting the bali bombing that killed many australian tourists. Is that not hypocritical?

let trace back in history, when kings rule with the mandate of GOD. it is in the name of conversion to the faith of GOD, that european explorers (or spanish conquistadors to be exact) killed hundreds of native americans after discovering the america continent. how many hundreds of thousands more were killed thereafter?

human rights supersedes national sovereignty or territorial completeness is an ideal, and not even practiced by the most vocal of its proponents. 弘扬人权高于主权的知识分子，不是书呆子，便是另有图谋。hence, i urge you to see these so called universal values with a global perspective and a historical perspective, and you shall see the role it plays in serving the State. in retrospect to the kingdoms that ruled europe: did god created man, or man created god? This is another issue that is highly debatable. My stand is: if there is indeed a GOD, he has been most distorted by men to serve their will.

chan,

many statements when taken out of context lose their meanings. so while it may seem really convenient to quote a sentence or two from someone’s essay to rebut his point, it serves no real meaning other than arguing for arguing sake. how many a times, reporters have taken a sentence from an entire interview to quote someone, be he a movie star or politician, only for the individual to later call for a press conference to clarify his points. Any meaningful debate is done by first fully understanding the other party’s point of view, before stating yours.

Quote”Chan,if you call yourself 汉人,using 汉字 for your surname,yet still treat 韦小宝 as a hero,then you might as well 認满清為父 ,and same as 認賊作父 ?”

你的行为都不是出于人性的逻辑，自身性格思想的逻辑，而仅仅是出于凑合意淫，让这种意淫圆满化的逻辑。

I am just using or borrowing the name 韦小宝 as a tool to express my idea to James. That’s all. 韦小宝,whereas Jin yong is 95% fiction ,2% truth.
Ali baba, I am just using your own words from above to answer your question. Do you see it clearly ? wake up from your fascination

乾隆时期的文字狱实在太多，不可能一一列举，这里引用黄裳一些话，“ 在乾隆中，诗文中最忌讳的是明字。李驎的(虹峰集》内有“杞人忧转切、翘首待重明’、‘日有明兮，自东方兮，照八荒兮，民悦康兮，我思孔氏兮，夜未央兮” 都是大逆不道的证据。戴移孝《碧落后人诗集》案中，连其祖父遗诗中“长明宁易得”句也认为是“悖逆显然”。官民的忌讳明字可以说是达到了神经错乱的地步。就连因私仇诬陷者也由此而捏造出莫须有的书名来如卓长龄等《忆鸣诗集》案（‘忆鸣’者谐音‘忆明’也）”

黄裳说他们忌讳“明”字达到神经错乱的地步，其实若说满清的奴才被主子的暴虐难测吓得神经错乱或许有之，但满清主子头脑应该还是清醒得很，他们就是要刻意制造这样人人自危，战栗发抖的恐怖气氛。

司马相如在《上林赋》里提到皇家打猎，光是被盛大阵势吓死和累死的野兽飞禽就无数。而康熙乾隆这些暴君希望的就是自己统治下的人们都象被围猎的猎物一样在恐怖气氛中觳觫发抖，战战兢兢，不用他们费力就自投罗网，战栗而死。