nbc and cnn are both american sites…try say, US’ closest allie, Britain…Post what BBC’s rankings.

As for cheating faking etc…

It’s innocent until proven guilty in America in cases like Carl Lewis(Suprise, he was found positive for doping 3 different times, yet received no sanctions), and guilty until proven innocent for Chinese atheletes.

Yeah, I am calling a duck when I see one.

As for lip synch and such…see the much praised Sydney symphony; where is the media outrage?

So to hear them talk about this and to continuously accuse China of cheating, I not sure if I should believe it. Also, you are basing the “cheating” from a few websites that people found online. I also don’t think that online sources are reliable these days, as articles online can be added by anyone and can be changed by anyone as well. So until IOC or the supposedly cheating Chinese admit, I would hold of on the accusing.

As Americans always say, “You are innocent until proven guilty!” So until China is proven guilty, they are innocent.

Also, to support what I said earlier about the IOC>
and how they never have actually declared that the most gold are pronounced the winner,
here is a clip from one of the most respected sports magazine int the world(SI):

{The race for the Olympic title is measured in medals, it just depends on which medals you consult. The IOC issues its league table based on the number of golds won, which gives China the honours, but then admits that there is no official system in place to decide who is top dog. So the American public is reading tables counting the total number of medals, including silver and bronze, won at the Games. On that measure, the US keep the whip hand over the home nation.)

**{no official system}**> ( Thats”s for all of you guys above that said ” that’s the way it’s always been done”)

Also just for a little more reinforcement check out this site:
http://www.nbcolympics.com/medals/index.html
It also supports my arguement that the US is recognized as #1.
I’m sorry you just can’t convience me that China won the olympics. Not because I am stubborn, hard headed, in”self-denial,” or wrong, but because there can be a legitimate, supported claim that the USA could also be the winner!

As for the debate of the ages of the girls, everyone just check out this “one” of numerous sites that agree the Chinese are cheaters:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-flumenbaum/scandal-of-the-ages-docum_b_118842.html which is supported by a reliable souce, The New York TImes!!

Also, to support what I said earlier about the IOC>
and how they never have actually declared that the most gold are pronounced the winner,
here is a clip from one of the most respected sports magazine int the world(SI):

{The race for the Olympic title is measured in medals, it just depends on which medals you consult. The IOC issues its league table based on the number of golds won, which gives China the honours, but then admits that there is no official system in place to decide who is top dog. So the American public is reading tables counting the total number of medals, including silver and bronze, won at the Games. On that measure, the US keep the whip hand over the home nation.)

**{no official system}**> ( Thats”s for all of you guys above that said ” that’s the way it’s always been done”)

Also just for a little more reinforcement check out this site:
http://www.nbcolympics.com/medals/index.html
It also supports my arguement that the US is recognized as #1.
I’m sorry you just can’t convience me that China won the olympics. Not because I am stubborn, hard headed, in”self-denial,” or wrong, but because there can be a legitimate, supported claim that the USA could also be the winner!

As for the debate of the ages of the girls, everyone just check out this “one” of numerous sites that agree the Chinese are cheaters:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-flumenbaum/scandal-of-the-ages-docum_b_118842.html which is supported by a reliable souce, The New York TImes!!
I appreciate everyones opinions (including KO), and I have enjoyed reading your comments. However, I believe that I have proved and supported my arguements and they cannot be changed by some of your independent thoughts or OPINIONS! By the way, I know the Chinese and Asian women look youthful and sometimes much younger than they appear, thats part of what makes them look and stay beatiful. But I think you know the girls were under age, and they defentialy don’t look any where near sixteen!
I might could be persuaded that the U S and China tied, but no way can I accept that China is the overall winner. Who is really in “denial” and being a ” sore-loser”! You see here in the US everyone has freedom of choice, unlike China , we do not have to tell people what to believe!

In regards to the Chinese female gymnasts. I agree they do look young. But you have to remember, Chinese people in general look a lot younger then their western counterpart especially in their teens and early twenties. I’m of Chinese descent myself, many Aussies think I’m 16-18 years old even though I am 24! I’m often called or referred to as “kid” by college/uni students who are probably 3-5 years younger then me.
To me, the Chinese gymnast look 13-15, except the fatter bigger one who looks 18 to me. Apparently gymnasts look younger due to their training and diet, so would it be such a stretch that 16 year olds look 14?

As for the “scam” with the lip syncing girl. I agree that it wasn’t the best thing to do, but you have to understand the culture in China is a lot different then ours. We do things for ourselves, our athletes win for their own pride. In china however, everything they do, they do for the country, the win for the pride of the country. It is a completely different mindset. To us, it is a scam because we don’t give credit to the real singer, however to the Chinese, and to the girl, the personal credit and glory is not important.. as long as they can serve their country.

Regarding what you hear on the news. Where I’m at, in the media- newspapers, tv, radio – all we see and hear is gold medal count, there is barely any mention of the US having the most medals.

Come on China, everyone, and I do mean everyone, knows those girls were under age! By the way I due keep up with international news,as well as having many friends outside of this country. I just returned from a business trip in Erlangen, Germany, so I believe by talking to different people along the way( airports, work, bars, stores, etc.) gave me somewhat of an opinion other than just the US. I met different people of all nationalities, and I would have to say most agree with me. As far as the IOC is concerned, they are alot like the UN. So sorting this out may take quite a while. Plus the IOC is so corrupt, and the Chinese are controlling so much of what goes on there by manipulating the media. I mean it is ridiculos that China feels like they have to censor their own people.> not letting them speak freeely, or even letting what they consider the “unworthy”, phycically challenged, or lower class even come out in freaking public during the olympics! Why are they ashamed of their own people? Just because their government thought that beatiful little girl wasn’t pretty enough, they pulled another scam by letting another “more attractive” girl lip sing the opening ceremonies. The IOC might not be admitting what is going on there right now, but that doesn’t mean that the world doesn’t know whats going on over there!
WEI:
SO my friend if the peverbial Shoe fits, wear it! Sometimes the truth is evident!!!> and if looks like a duck, walks like a duck,> than put some soy sauce and rice over it and eat it>!!! (little joke)

Not necessarily, for example if you win gold, silver and bronze in an event, then you have 3 medals for just one event. More medals doesn’t mean more events.

US has medals for 21 events whereas China has medals for 25 events.

To me, China is the winner, but I guess it doesn’t really matter.

I don’t think the Chinese cheated besides the young looking gymnasts. Chinese do look a lot younger then westerners though so its hard to tell if they’re really underage. To me they look 13-14. The fatter one looks 18 to me. But people say because of gymnast’s diet and training, they mature later? So I guess it wouldn’t be too far fetched for a 16 yr old to look like at 14 year old? I’m Chinese myself though not born in China. Aussies always think I’m 16 or 17 even though I’m 24! Many college/uni students call me “kid” when I am probably 3-6 years older then them. I have to show my ID card every time I go to the casino.

Not necessarily, for example if you win gold, silver and bronze in an event, then you have 3 medals for just one event. More medals doesn’t mean more events.

US has medals for 21 events whereas China has medals for 25 events.

To me, China is the winner, but I guess it doesn’t really matter. I don’t think Chinese cheated besides the young looking gymnasts. But Chinese do look a lot younger then westerners so its hard to tell if they’re really underage. To me they look 13-14. But people say because of gymnast’s diet and training, they mature later? So I guess it wouldn’t be too far fetched for a 16 yr old to look like at 14 year old? I’m Chinese myself though not born in China. Aussies always think I’m 16 or 17 even though I’m 24! Many college/uni students call me “kid” when I am probably 3-6 years older then them. I have to show my ID card every time I go to the casino.

Really? Show me which medals have been taken away.

Wishful thinking does not count ;)

One should not get in the habbit of declaring self victories. It has a habbit of biting you in the behind one day.

Looking at international coverage and IOC sites, most people list the number of gold medal first. That is just a fact.

However, I have to disagree with you on the winner of this Olympics. If you are reading and watching American news then all you will hear is how US won the most medals. However, if you are reading/watching international news, then you will hear about how China won the most Gold.

Also regards to the cheating that many claims China to have done. Remember, you are innocent until you are proven guilty. So until IOC can prove that China cheated then they did not cheat and are rightful winners of their gold medals.

Ko: I must correct you> Its simple mathmatics, If the US has the most medals that they obviously placed in the most events! US -110 placements {medals} and China- 100 placements.

I would also like to congratulate all athletes who received a medal honestly.- even some of the Chinese- not all were cheaters!

The US won in my opinion and that’s final. All you folks that think China won can continue to argue with yourselves. Thanks to everyones opinions> even if they were not all supported. It’s nice to have a debate with adults that can refrain from a bunch of name calling!!

China
—–
51*3 = 153
21*2 = 42
28*1 = 28 , T = 223

USA
—-
36*3 = 108
38*2 = 76
36*1 = 36, T = 220

BTW…i cannot believe that they are such sore losers. common accept defeat gracefully. it has always been gold rankings…bohoooooo, shame on you!!!!!!!!!