Blogspot blogger Johnny Ong looks at Chinese and US media Olympics coverage and poses an interesting question: what does constitute “winning” the Olympics: number of gold medals, or number of medals overall?
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I believe the real winners are the individuals, not the nations. Take gymnastics, for instance, we had a woman born in America of Chinese parents, competing for our diving team. Does her medal count for China or the U.S.
She was coached by a Chinese man who immigrated to the U.S. to coach athletics. Are his students who win counted for him or for his nation?
The NBA is made up of international players. In some way, the impact of the U.S. on sports influences several different national teams. Should the U.S. share in the medals of those teams as well as those won by its own national team.
Why is Michael Phelps’ team golds count toward his overall total, when it is the individual golds that are his alone?
I like the fact that athletes blend from all over the world. We should look at the Olympics as a global event and count only national medals for nations who field teams that represent them. The indidivual medals should not be counted toward national standings.
Could the emphasis on which nation is winning the Olympics fuel the fire of political sentiment that precedes the olympics and make us doubt the judging in sports that are judged.
Maybe it is the actual keeping of totals that lead to your question
I’ve read a couple of your blogs here. Now I tell you the answer, Olympic value is the participation, how comes the “win” or “not win” ? Every one is No.1 in the game. I really feel so shame of you, you have no rights to talk sports here, you’re more like a politician. Sorry, I bashed you.
In China’s view, the only thing that matters is the total number of Gold. US Media tends to focus on the total medal tally and individual record breakers, like Phelps’ incredible 8 gold medal run.
The reality is, China’s argument for total Gold resonates pretty easily. On the other hand, the greater number of medals hows real meaning, too.
Looking at it objectively, if one assigns a relative ranking scale to these medals: 3 points for gold, 2 points for silver and 1 point for bronze, and sums them up, you get a more objective total number. Using this calculation, the US has led for most of the games until just recently.
@Kim,
Don’t flatter yourself into thinking you’re bashing me for that; I put the word winning in quotations for what I still think is a pretty obvious reason. Feel free to go on, though.
@Chris,
Interesting proposal. I just read that they changed the scoring system for gymnastics where they now start at 10.00 and deduct down, whereas before it used to be bottom up. Actually, I have no idea how the other sports calculate scores.
IOC ranks nations by Gold…
http://www.olympic.org/uk/games/past/index_uk.asp?OLGT=1&OLGY=2004
To be honest, I don’t think it is important…
Waking up at 5:30 am and watch GuoJingJing win however is ;)
As opposed to simply stating opinion, I decided to check the factual history of the Olympic summer games.
In every assessment of which country dominated the games, both the total golds and total medal counts are considered.
In every summer games, the country that won the most golds also had the most total medals. To do both, signified a strong cross-section of dominance within the world of sports/athleticism.
Whether it was the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany, the international community recognized their Olympic superiority because they had both the highest total and gold medal count despite being nations’ with horrific human rights abuses and oppressive ideologies.
In all of the games that it was considered the best, the USA also lead in both total medal and gold medal counts.
If China does not lead in both total medals and gold medals, it should not be recognized as the best in this Olympics. At the end of the games, it will simply be a draw between the US and China. It will also probably be a disappointment for the Chinese government which has invested more in these games than in ending genocide within Darfur/Sudan or brutal oppression within its own borders.
I think it should be decicded by the total points system: Gold 3 points, Silver 2 and Bronze 1. But also take in the amount of medals per capita, so a small country like Togo getting 5 gold medals would be quite and achievement, whereas the USA or China are expected to get lots of different medals because of the size of the country and the amount of people..
@Olympicsrock
Way to go to turn this into a political thing…
That is why you guys are rather hated by ordinary Chinese even though you claim you want to speak for them.
Don’t blame the ccp for this one, look in the mirror.
To Who Ever Listens
The judges robbed Alicia Sacramone of points only to give the Chinese competitor who fell on her nees a higher score. The Chinese must have paid the judges very well for the judges to cheat that way with the whole world watching. Additionally Shawn Johnson was never give the level of difficulty she deserved before her performances. The robbed Shawn of the Individual Floor Excercises also and gave it to the Romanian. girl. Why didn’t the American couches protest the judges kissing the Chinese asses.
@ will thelma
lol paid the judges…
what a hater
thks for the link john.
back to kim soong’s comment - if everyone’s no.1 then there’s no point in holding olympics to decide who’s the world best or even holding a world cup for any kind of sports.
surely those who are participating in the on-going olympians are truly olympians as they have qualified for it on merit as they are their respective nation’s no.1. but when it comes to world stage, sorry mate, there’s only a single slot for no. 1
People, the International Olympic Council’s system is simple: the winner of most gold medals is the Olympic’s winner. Come on USA, admit your defeat and think about London.
Hi folks, I propose the following score:
* gold 4, silver 2 and bronze 1.
* other considerations are too complicated
- population (China beats India by a margin but loses to Singapore or Mongolia I guess);
- or average income per person (US has money to buy Speedo but a poor country cannot afford Phelps’s food bill…)
But relax. Olympic is for nations to understand each other and not for winning metals and money.
Britain and USA have already picked the spaniards as a scape goat to bash for 2016. It will be fun to watch what tactics they will use.
@wei
Ummm although he shouldn’t have turned it into a political thing - he does have a point. An you shouldn’t say things like “That is why you guys are rather hated by ordinary Chinese” because you don’t represent ordinary chinese nor does he represent all of america.
People in all countries are individuals. Looking, grouping and summing up “everyone” with a single ideology or belief is the tool governments use to oppress, coerce and control their people.
@Tim,
“People in all countries are individuals. Looking, grouping and summing up “everyone” with a single ideology or belief is the tool governments use to oppress, coerce and control their people.”
That’s is a total negative, this could be make use by politicians to gain support and Chaos for changing a Government System.
We should not judge a Government System by “Name”. See the Merits they have done.
A common good ideology and objectives which could be share and treasured by All People in a Nation is indeed very neccessary for the growth, progress and harmony of a Nation
Good words but none of that crap tells me who is winning! Is there some kind of rankings like a gold is worth 3 points cilver 2 and a bronze 1 point? or what? the USA has more medals but china has more gold so over all who is winning. Yes it is an individual gold but the purpose for any game including the olympics is to have a winner. and the winner of the overall is the country who supossedly has the best atheletes. and that is what I want to know if anyone has that answer who is in the lead now over all?
The Chinese gymnastic men are SO HOT! Oh and the flame protectors’ second brother to the right is also very HOT!
China’s GOLDEN boys
I am going to marry one of those someday. ;-)
The USA are the only country in the world that are using the ‘medal count’ system. As far as every other country is concerned, China are 1st, US 2nd, GB 3rd, Australia 4th.
To suggest that a bronze carries the wieght of a gold is absurd. Such reasoning would mean that 51 bronze medals is a better haul than 50 golds. And that Phelps would have been equally successful had he got 8 bronzes instead of 8 golds. Claptrap!
It’s also going to be fairly subjective assigning points - eg, gold=3, silver=2, bronze=1, as suggested above, yet I would suggest that one gold is worth at least three silver, and likewise one silver three bronze - hence gold=9, silver=3, bronze=1.
It would appear to the rest of the world that the US are bad losers. Accept 2nd place with grace safe in the knowledge that you beat the rest of the world.
If I have as many pennies as Rockefeller has dollars then who’s the richer?
Clearly Rockefeller, duh, or are we competing for who plays dumbest?!
We have 3 medals more than the Chinese in the total medal count, BUT they have 17 – yes, 17 GOLD MEDALS MORE (43 to 26!) THAN US as of 08/19/08! Sorry for the impolite uppercase but the US media and bloggers all seem to be either disingenuous or in denial.
China is winning the Olympics by a lot and it is not just recently as Chris McCabe states. Own up to it and do better in Chicago. In the meantime show some sportsmanship. As an American and a Caucasian I am embarrassed by the media’s attempts to hide the obvious and by the lack of grace in recognizing China’s wins. As legitimate as it is to celebrate Michael Phelps it is equally appalling that no one points out that they are up 17 gold medals.
Please, a little honesty! Isn’t that an American value or is all that cherry tree stuff they fill our heads with in school a bunch of bunk?
pathetic loosers, it is clear that China is the winner.
I agree with hector using the 9-3-1 system to rank the medals. But no matter how you rank it, as long as there is a decent margin between points for gold and silver, China will be leading since they are beating the runner up in gold (aka US) by 19 medals as of 8/20/08.
But honestly speaking, why do we even care about the total medal counts, all athletics in this world go to the Olympics to win gold, no one goes to the Olympics to win silver or bronze. Not to say that they are not important.
So basically I side with IOC and the rest of the world, number of gold is much more important then total medal count. If not Phelps record of 8 gold is worth as much as someone winning 8 bronze.
So… although I don’t really like Xao Mings wording, he is right.
China is the WINNER of the 2008 Olympics!!!
Well, let’s be fair, and this is a very interesting situation.
So to me both are winners depending on which part of the pie you are cutting it. If you are cutting for more medals, then USA is the winner, but if you are cutting for more GOLD medals, then CHINA is the winner. So far it’s an interesting combination.
What does this tell me? It tells me that USA and CHINA will have to work as a team whether they like it or not.
I have read some written articles predicting that in the future, there will be multiple super powers verses what we have now - One super power. Inevitably, CHINA is propelling toward that direction whether the world likes it or not. Let me repeat democracy is happening one day at a time in CHINA, and she’s got 1.5 billion children supporting her from mainland and around the globe. It’s a lot of burden to carry as one sole super power such as policing other nations. So it would be nice if CHINA and USA and maybe another nation(s) to join the rank to become multiple super powers. Now that will be Utopia for our future generations!
Those who have particpated and contributed to the Olypmic Games for the True Olympic Spirit, are Winners
@John
I agree with you that no athlete attends the Olympics to win silver or bronze.
But the ranking of which country is number one is still an extremely interesting discussion.
The angle of discussion is paramount. We are simply looking at the same numbers displayed differently. (Gold medals or total medals)
What if No. of medals (or gold medals) was compared to inhabitants?
Then I could argue that Jamaica is leading the medal tally.
I found this interesting widget that displays medals (and total medals) compared to inhabitants.
Check it out and see a different view of the medal tally:
http://www.clearspring.com/widgets/48abc6bc903b61d0
Thanks for a great discussion.
I’ll be following the debate
James
http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/athens/medals.aspx
Check that out! USA today, final medal table for Athens 2004. Notice how China were second, and Russia third, yet Russia had more medals overall.
http://content.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/beijing/medals.aspx
And by contrast, how the USA Today people are reporting the medal table for the current Olympics.
The winner has always been the country with the highest gold medal count. There’s no point in discussing or debating other methods of finding a winner. Why change the way its been done all these years?
Winner = country with the most gold medals.
ATM, China is leading by a huge margin, probably the biggest margin in the more recent Olympic games (A difference of 19 gold medals between China and US.)
So, unless US suddenly gets a ton of gold medals, China will probably win the Olympics.
Counting and/or ranking medals? Would it be more fair if it’s based on national population, i.e.., # of xxx medals per million of people?
it depends on the point of view, if you are american the US is the winner but for the rest of the world its china
@Mulan
As history has shown us, we cannot have more than one superpower at one time, the Cold wars. Russia and USA were both superpowers and at the time there were many conflict of interests in world affairs. In the end, Russia lost its superpower standings along with its economy.
If we have China and USA or more superpowers at one time, I fore see another Cold war, ending with either one or more of those countries collapsing.
@James
You can’t really use a ranking style where you rank according to number of medals per population. If you do this then the larger countries (China, USA, Russia, India, etc) will have a humongous disadvantage. China alone has 1.3 billion people, while Jamaica (the listed winner) has less then 3 million. Now you tell me, can you really compare it this way.
@Hector
From my years living and growing up in America, I can say that all American newspapers will rank in favor of USA winning, no matter what the rest of the says, hence your example of usatodays ranking during Athens and now Beijing.
I actually support no particular country, it’s all just games, however, I do understand that if I were to tell this to one of the people who has worked hard to acheive the common goal: to participate in the olympics, and possibly win the widely craved olympic gold medal, I would recieve a well deserved pop in the nose. People work their Butts off just to get into the olympics in the first place, and I understand that very few of them go home as happy-go-lucky people. Just look at the swimming events, for example, they hold several trials just to “find the gold medal material”. None of this is possible without unquestioned determination.
To tell the truth I believe that in order to win, not only is a lifetime of training required, but the participants must be taught and drilled firmly in determination. For without the drive of unending determination, a participant will later, and unevitably give up, even when the end is in sight. The womens marathon is a perfect example of great determination. Australia’s runner got ahead and stayed ahead, and actually won because she had the wit, physical training, and unerring determination to do so.
The Champion of a game is always the Gold Medal owner/winner, that is True.
No point telling and showing clearly to every people in the World that you have more Silver Medal and Bronze Medal in Total to be Number One. Because this really shown that you are really just Number 2 and clearly…. :-)
Good try about most gold test, BUT it just doesn’t hold water! Yes, i agree that 100 gold is better than 101 silver,however anyone would agree that 101 silver is better than just 1 gold. The USA has more silver and more bronze than China. IF YOU ADD UP WHO HAS THE MOST MEDALS BY EVENTS, THAN THE USA WINS THAT TOO. You see when we were kids competing, what was better- the kid with one ribbon, or the kid with 20 ribbions? America is just more overall athletic! Placing in the most EVENTS rationally determines the winner. Why do you think there are over 300 events in the olympics!!
Keith:
Firstly, the winner of the Olympics has always been the nation with the most gold, so that isn’t going to change. There really is no point in debating it because that’s how it has always been done.
You said, “IF YOU ADD UP WHO HAS THE MOST MEDALS BY EVENTS, THAN THE USA WINS THAT TOO.” But that isn’t true. As of this post, China has medals in more events then the US, 21 events to 18.
I guess 101 silver is better then 1 gold, however the total medal difference between the two nations are quite close. Its not like US has 101 silver and china only 1 gold. If you follow your logic, it would probably be closer to US having 101 silver and China 95 gold. Which would you consider then winner then?
Anyway, the fact is, the winner is the nation with the most gold.
I am sorry but you all are wrong it goes by points. 3 points for Gold, 2 points for Silver, and 1 point for Bronze. Which means, the USA and China are tied for 1st place at winning the Olympics, because they each have 200 points. China was ahead for a long time, but at 1:30am pst USA was 4 points ahead, and by 5 am pst China and the USA were tied in points.
I like the 9 for gold, 3 for silver, and 1 for broze the best. It’s the fairest!
China: 499
US: 422
Lala, sorry you have it wrong, I said
3 points for Gold.
2 points for Silver and
1 point for Bronze.
China has 200 points
47 Gold x 3 = 141
17 Silver x 2 = 34
25 Bronze x 1 = 25
USA has 200 points
31 Gold x 3 = 93
36 Silver x 2 = 72
35 Bronze x 1 = 35
So the USA and China are tied
This point system is the official way it is done. check out the official olympic website. It is listed there that it is 3 2 1
pmbdzn
Technically, you are wrong. If you assign:
3 pts = Gold
2 pts = Silver
1 pt = Bronze
then what you are actually saying is that gold is only worth 1 lousy point more than silver and silver 1 lousy point than bronze, when in reality getting a gold medal means you are the best in this world at the particular sport. So a scoring of 9,3,1 or a 10,5,1 would make much more sense. Gold >> Silver >> Bronze
pmbdzn:
I can’t find where it says gold is worth 3 points, silver 2 and bronze 1. Can you give me the url?
If you look at previous Olympics and how the countries are ranked, it has always been the nation with more gold medals above nations with less gold medals.
China is definitely the winner for 2008 Olympics.
I like USA, but it should stop its self denial and hypocrisy in trying to change the winning criteria to one by total medals.
Reasons:
- A gold medal is definitely much more than a silver or bronze. Going by total medals without considering the differences is crazy. Ask any Olympic athlete why they fight so hard for a gold.
- From all past Olympics contests, we have always rated the winner in terms of maximum gold medals.
- From past Olympics ranking, no country has declared themselves as a runner-up in terms of total medal tally, because no one has ever think in that way.
Come on, USA, you have already much less gold medals in 2008 compared to 2004. Wise up and go for a bigger haul in 2012. Stop the victim mentality.
US MEDIA IS DECEIVING AMERICANS!
US media has always ranked based on Gold in the past and changed it now to MISLEAD the American public for political reasons.
An example from ESPN/NBC-Olympics is one of the many US media pathetic attempts to mislead their viewers. Check out the past medal tallies, ranked by Gold, not total medals. Pay attention at how the other countries are ranked.
Barcelona 1992:
http://proxy.espn.go.com/oly/summer08/fanguide/history?year=1992&type=medals
Atlanta 1996:
http://proxy.espn.go.com/oly/summer08/fanguide/history?year=1996&type=medals
Sydney 2000:
http://proxy.espn.go.com/oly/summer08/fanguide/history?year=2000&type=medals
Athens 2004:
http://proxy.espn.go.com/oly/summer08/fanguide/history?year=2004&type=medals
Beijing 2008:
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer08/medals
If the US media believes the value of a silver medal is equal to a gold, I guess they should feel alright to rank US in second spot, after China.. since being a runner-up is the same as being the champion, after all. But, they changed the ranking method.
To many sports persons it is HOW MANY TIMES YOUR NATIONAL ANTHEM IS FILLING UP THE AIR, AND A SENSE OF PRIDE AS YOU SEE YOUR NATIONAL FLAG RISE HIGHER ABOVE ALL, AND THE ATHELETE STANDING TALLER ON THE PODIUM.
The Star-Spangled Banner was played 31 times compared to China’s national anthem’s 48 times.
Perhaps, someone should ask Michael Phelps if he prefers 9 silvers or 10 bronzes over the 8 golds? Hmmmph, I wonder.
I am sure if you ask the NBA players if they would choose to be NBA runner-ups twice over NBA champion once. Think you have to buy your own championship ring as runner ups. Hmmmph, I wonder.
If you argue how to rank Nation A with 1 Gold lower compared to Nation B with 10 Silvers and 10 Bronzes, you should simply ask “who has won?” Nation A produces an Olympic champion while Nation B has failed to do so, but is acknowledged with consolation medals to drive them to do better the next time.
How would you rank if Nation A has only 30 bronzes and no golds or silvers, compared to Nation B who has won 29 Golds only?
Hypothetically as someone pointed out, if the US win all 302 Gold medals and China has the rest the silver and bronze medals, 604, who should emerge the overall champion? Hmmmph, I wonder.
Even if you were to rank by point system, you should ask yourself if you would prefer to have 1 Gold or 2 Silvers? 1 Silver or 2 Bronzes?
If you base on this 2:1 ratio, you can award Gold medal 4 points, Silver medal 2 points and Bronze medal 1 point. Then you can decide if China still rank higher than US.
China Gold 48 Silver 17 Bronze 27 yields a total of 253 points.
USA Gold 31 Silver 36 Bronze 36 yields a total of 232 points.
30% of US’ total 103 medals, to date, are Gold medals. 52% of China’s total 92 medals, to date, are Gold medals.
China also triumphs in more sports categories, compared to US.
American should be proud of what their atheletes have achieved, especially Michael Phelps, hailed as the greatest Olympian to date and they should acknowledge China’s victory at the same time and not act like a SORE LOSER, not accepting defeat gracefully in the true spirits of the Olympics.
Shame on the US media but the world can award them a GOLD medal for “misleading media category”.
I wonder how they think when they try to win the best ratings or best media awards. Should they go for 2nd or 3rd place? Hmmmph.
The links I provided above tells it all. Changing the ranking to total medal count from Gold medal this Olympic to maintain US at the top.
Perhaps, if China do overtake US in total medal count, they would stat to rank US at the top based on Silver medals, as I don’t think China can beat US in the Silver medal race.
KO:
The IOC does rank nations by the amount of gold medals they have. However, if you look at their previous olympic rankings they also rank nations by the amount of medals they have also. They do not in fact specify a winner! I’m not going to even get into the fact that the Chinese have been busted for cheating. After China is stripped of the undeserved medals that they have, than US and China will not be so close in events won. Granted this probably won’t happen immediately, but the IOC will eventualy do the right thing. Futhermore ie> just because a NFL team is ranked #1 throughout the season, doesn’t mean that they automatically win the Superbowl.New doping aligations have also been brought against China, which have strong sources that support them. I have no problem admitting when the US is beat, but that has to happen first. Come on China let’s play fair!
Ko:
By the way, you did make some good points, However there are just more things to consider.
I’ve got to agree with Keith in the cheating going on. The judging in the points scoring events have been time and again weighted in China’s favour. The taekwondo saga was quite something to watch.
And on further investigation, I understand that USA Today are the only US paper to have changed the way they rank countries. All the other media outlets (well, most anyway) have always reported the medal table the same way the Associated Press do - which has always been medal count. Further, Russia also go by the medal count system. And again agreeing with Keith, the IOC do not say there is an official way of tallying the tables. I think that’s rather daft, it would not be hard to say ‘this is the official way, and that’s final’. I’d imagine they may even come up with something like that by 2012. They didn’t even have a medal table until a few decades ago - it was considered to be against the spirit of the Games.
So, whilst I still disagree with the medal count table (as do most of the world), I do not think that the USA have decided to use it just to win - I believe they would have used that table whether they were ahead on gold or not.
I’m just happy that we (Britain) have improved so much.
Also check>
http://www.thespread.com/sports-betting-top-stories-900/china-odds-to-win-all-events-at-2008-beijing-summer-oly.html - 63k -
You will see that even Vegas also takes bets on who will win most medals!!
After you look there you’ll see why I’m glad I didn’t take those odds!
Go USA!!!!!!
crap! one gold is at least worth 3 silvers. what would you prefer - 3 silver medals or 2 gold medals? I dont think anyone would prefer the previous one.
BTW…i cannot believe that they are such sore losers. common accept defeat gracefully. it has always been gold rankings…bohoooooo, shame on you!!!!!!!!!
correction :
China
—–
51*3 = 153
21*2 = 42
28*1 = 28 , T = 223
USA
—-
36*3 = 108
38*2 = 76
36*1 = 36, T = 220
The olympics are over and all I hear on the news and web are about how the U S won the most medals!
Ko: I must correct you> Its simple mathmatics, If the US has the most medals that they obviously placed in the most events! US -110 placements {medals} and China- 100 placements.
I would also like to congratulate all athletes who received a medal honestly.- even some of the Chinese- not all were cheaters!
The US won in my opinion and that’s final. All you folks that think China won can continue to argue with yourselves. Thanks to everyones opinions> even if they were not all supported. It’s nice to have a debate with adults that can refrain from a bunch of name calling!!
Keith:
Agree with you on your last point, its good to have a debate on this forum without us screaming down each others throats and vicious name calling like the other forums.
However, I have to disagree with you on the winner of this Olympics. If you are reading and watching American news then all you will hear is how US won the most medals. However, if you are reading/watching international news, then you will hear about how China won the most Gold.
Also regards to the cheating that many claims China to have done. Remember, you are innocent until you are proven guilty. So until IOC can prove that China cheated then they did not cheat and are rightful winners of their gold medals.
@48
One should not get in the habbit of declaring self victories. It has a habbit of biting you in the behind one day.
Looking at international coverage and IOC sites, most people list the number of gold medal first. That is just a fact.
-> I’m not going to even get into the fact that the Chinese have been busted for cheating.
Really? Show me which medals have been taken away.
Wishful thinking does not count ;)
Heith:
“I must correct you> Its simple mathmatics, If the US has the most medals that they obviously placed in the most events! US -110 placements {medals} and China- 100 placements.”
Not necessarily, for example if you win gold, silver and bronze in an event, then you have 3 medals for just one event. More medals doesn’t mean more events.
US has medals for 21 events whereas China has medals for 25 events.
To me, China is the winner, but I guess it doesn’t really matter. I don’t think Chinese cheated besides the young looking gymnasts. But Chinese do look a lot younger then westerners so its hard to tell if they’re really underage. To me they look 13-14. But people say because of gymnast’s diet and training, they mature later? So I guess it wouldn’t be too far fetched for a 16 yr old to look like at 14 year old? I’m Chinese myself though not born in China. Aussies always think I’m 16 or 17 even though I’m 24! Many college/uni students call me “kid” when I am probably 3-6 years older then them. I have to show my ID card every time I go to the casino.
Heith:
“I must correct you> Its simple mathmatics, If the US has the most medals that they obviously placed in the most events! US -110 placements {medals} and China- 100 placements.”
Not necessarily, for example if you win gold, silver and bronze in an event, then you have 3 medals for just one event. More medals doesn’t mean more events.
US has medals for 21 events whereas China has medals for 25 events.
To me, China is the winner, but I guess it doesn’t really matter.
I don’t think the Chinese cheated besides the young looking gymnasts. Chinese do look a lot younger then westerners though so its hard to tell if they’re really underage. To me they look 13-14. The fatter one looks 18 to me. But people say because of gymnast’s diet and training, they mature later? So I guess it wouldn’t be too far fetched for a 16 yr old to look like at 14 year old? I’m Chinese myself though not born in China. Aussies always think I’m 16 or 17 even though I’m 24! Many college/uni students call me “kid” when I am probably 3-6 years older then them. I have to show my ID card every time I go to the casino.
Ok Ok! I might be inclined to consider that one could argue that “he” who has the most gold could be the winner. As long as there is also closeness in medals as well. (We established that 100 silver is obviously worth more than one gold). Even though I have explained why I feel the US is the winner. I can see some of your guys arguements. But if anyone can say with a straight face that they don’t think the Chinese cheated in this Olympics, I would be extremely suprised.
Come on China, everyone, and I do mean everyone, knows those girls were under age! By the way I due keep up with international news,as well as having many friends outside of this country. I just returned from a business trip in Erlangen, Germany, so I believe by talking to different people along the way( airports, work, bars, stores, etc.) gave me somewhat of an opinion other than just the US. I met different people of all nationalities, and I would have to say most agree with me. As far as the IOC is concerned, they are alot like the UN. So sorting this out may take quite a while. Plus the IOC is so corrupt, and the Chinese are controlling so much of what goes on there by manipulating the media. I mean it is ridiculos that China feels like they have to censor their own people.> not letting them speak freeely, or even letting what they consider the “unworthy”, phycically challenged, or lower class even come out in freaking public during the olympics! Why are they ashamed of their own people? Just because their government thought that beatiful little girl wasn’t pretty enough, they pulled another scam by letting another “more attractive” girl lip sing the opening ceremonies. The IOC might not be admitting what is going on there right now, but that doesn’t mean that the world doesn’t know whats going on over there!
WEI:
SO my friend if the peverbial Shoe fits, wear it! Sometimes the truth is evident!!!> and if looks like a duck, walks like a duck,> than put some soy sauce and rice over it and eat it>!!! (little joke)
Keith:
You said “Ko: I must correct you> Its simple mathmatics, If the US has the most medals that they obviously placed in the most events! US -110 placements {medals} and China- 100 placements.”
Having more total medals doesn’t necessarily mean they placed in more events. For example, if you get 1-2-3, gold-silver-bronze in an event, then that is 3 medals in 1 event.
The US has medals in 21 events whereas China has medals in 25 events.
In regards to the Chinese female gymnasts. I agree they do look young. But you have to remember, Chinese people in general look a lot younger then their western counterpart especially in their teens and early twenties. I’m of Chinese descent myself, many Aussies think I’m 16-18 years old even though I am 24! I’m often called or referred to as “kid” by college/uni students who are probably 3-5 years younger then me.
To me, the Chinese gymnast look 13-15, except the fatter bigger one who looks 18 to me. Apparently gymnasts look younger due to their training and diet, so would it be such a stretch that 16 year olds look 14?
As for the “scam” with the lip syncing girl. I agree that it wasn’t the best thing to do, but you have to understand the culture in China is a lot different then ours. We do things for ourselves, our athletes win for their own pride. In china however, everything they do, they do for the country, the win for the pride of the country. It is a completely different mindset. To us, it is a scam because we don’t give credit to the real singer, however to the Chinese, and to the girl, the personal credit and glory is not important.. as long as they can serve their country.
Regarding what you hear on the news. Where I’m at, in the media- newspapers, tv, radio - all we see and hear is gold medal count, there is barely any mention of the US having the most medals.
KO:
When I first made the statement what I actually meant to say that the US had more athletes to receive a medal than China! At the time I checked the statistics, the US had about 187 athletes with a medal to China’s 94 athletes. I did not check the final number of athletes to recieve a medal, however I do know that the US finished way ahead of China! That pobably has to do with the US winning more team sports. Which I believe helps support my arguement of being more athletic. So when I corrected you I was going on that fact. Sorry for the misunderstanding!
Also, to support what I said earlier about the IOC>
and how they never have actually declared that the most gold are pronounced the winner,
here is a clip from one of the most respected sports magazine int the world(SI):
{The race for the Olympic title is measured in medals, it just depends on which medals you consult. The IOC issues its league table based on the number of golds won, which gives China the honours, but then admits that there is no official system in place to decide who is top dog. So the American public is reading tables counting the total number of medals, including silver and bronze, won at the Games. On that measure, the US keep the whip hand over the home nation.)
**{no official system}**> ( Thats”s for all of you guys above that said ” that’s the way it’s always been done”)
Also just for a little more reinforcement check out this site:
http://www.nbcolympics.com/medals/index.html
It also supports my arguement that the US is recognized as #1.
I’m sorry you just can’t convience me that China won the olympics. Not because I am stubborn, hard headed, in”self-denial,” or wrong, but because there can be a legitimate, supported claim that the USA could also be the winner!
As for the debate of the ages of the girls, everyone just check out this “one” of numerous sites that agree the Chinese are cheaters:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-flumenbaum/scandal-of-the-ages-docum_b_118842.html which is supported by a reliable souce, The New York TImes!!
I appreciate everyones opinions (including KO), and I have enjoyed reading your comments. However, I believe that I have proved and supported my arguements and they cannot be changed by some of your independent thoughts or OPINIONS! By the way, I know the Chinese and Asian women look youthful and sometimes much younger than they appear, thats part of what makes them look and stay beatiful. But I think you know the girls were under age, and they defentialy don’t look any where near sixteen!
I might could be persuaded that the U S and China tied, but no way can I accept that China is the overall winner. Who is really in “denial” and being a ” sore-loser”! You see here in the US everyone has freedom of choice, unlike China , we do not have to tell people what to believe!
KO:
When I first made the statement what I actually meant to say that the US had more athletes to receive a medal than China! At the time I checked the statistics, the US had about 187 athletes with a medal to China’s 94 athletes. I did not check the final number of athletes to recieve a medal, however I do know that the US finished way ahead of China! That pobably has to do with the US winning more team sports. Which I believe helps support my arguement of being more athletic. So when I corrected you I was going on that fact. Sorry for the misunderstanding!
Also, to support what I said earlier about the IOC>
and how they never have actually declared that the most gold are pronounced the winner,
here is a clip from one of the most respected sports magazine int the world(SI):
{The race for the Olympic title is measured in medals, it just depends on which medals you consult. The IOC issues its league table based on the number of golds won, which gives China the honours, but then admits that there is no official system in place to decide who is top dog. So the American public is reading tables counting the total number of medals, including silver and bronze, won at the Games. On that measure, the US keep the whip hand over the home nation.)
**{no official system}**> ( Thats”s for all of you guys above that said ” that’s the way it’s always been done”)
Also just for a little more reinforcement check out this site:
http://www.nbcolympics.com/medals/index.html
It also supports my arguement that the US is recognized as #1.
I’m sorry you just can’t convience me that China won the olympics. Not because I am stubborn, hard headed, in”self-denial,” or wrong, but because there can be a legitimate, supported claim that the USA could also be the winner!
As for the debate of the ages of the girls, everyone just check out this “one” of numerous sites that agree the Chinese are cheaters:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-flumenbaum/scandal-of-the-ages-docum_b_118842.html which is supported by a reliable souce, The New York TImes!!
Not to down play New York Times but NYT and CNN has been known to be really bias against China. I read many articles written by these two news companies and pretty much every sentence has some sort of bias in it.
So to hear them talk about this and to continuously accuse China of cheating, I not sure if I should believe it. Also, you are basing the “cheating” from a few websites that people found online. I also don’t think that online sources are reliable these days, as articles online can be added by anyone and can be changed by anyone as well. So until IOC or the supposedly cheating Chinese admit, I would hold of on the accusing.
As Americans always say, “You are innocent until proven guilty!” So until China is proven guilty, they are innocent.
LOL keith,
nbc and cnn are both american sites…try say, US’ closest allie, Britain…Post what BBC’s rankings.
As for cheating faking etc…
It’s innocent until proven guilty in America in cases like Carl Lewis(Suprise, he was found positive for doping 3 different times, yet received no sanctions), and guilty until proven innocent for Chinese atheletes.
Yeah, I am calling a duck when I see one.
As for lip synch and such…see the much praised Sydney symphony; where is the media outrage?