The day after live-vlogging the rare phenomenon that is a loud Free Tibet protest in the middle of Tiananmen Square, Noel ‘noneck' Hidalgo has just tweeted that he is to be deported. Guess he wasn't using Tor.
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The so-called human rights activists clearly lack basic manners. In Chinese culture, when you are a guest, you behave as a guest. It is barbaric to come to someone’s house and start a fight. And the more so when you do not even understand the history of China (including Tibet) but simply take as gospel truth lies that have been propagated by biased and disgruntled traitors.
Reply to Tan Lye Huat: I’ve heard a lot of garbage this year about “don’t shame the Chinese, it’s very important for them not to lose face”. How much mileage can the CCP get out of this? And now you’re saying we must have “manners”?
When a Chinese student in Britain threatened a shopkeeper for displaying a Tibetan flag, was this good manners? When the shop window was smashed at night and the flag removed, was this good manners?
When PAP troops ran through the streets of London with the Olympic torch, pushing British people around, was this good manners?
When Australians in Australia held a Tibetan flag (their democratic right to do so) and were attacked by Chinese, was this good manners?
When Koreans in S. Korea shouted “free Tibet” and were beaten by Chinese students, was this good manners?
YES, WHEN YOU ARE A GUEST YOU MUST BEHAVE LIKE A GUEST. Unless you are speaking out for injustice. Then you have to make compromises.
I have been to Tibet, and I have seen Tibetans pushed around by rude and obnoxious Chinese tourists – guests – visiting Tibet (I also saw many nice, kind Chinese tourists). And I have seen Tibetans living in fear from the Chinese. I have met Tibetans who have been tortured for standing in the street and shouting “long live the Dalai Lama”. If you want to preach about respecting culture, understand that in Tibetan culture, the Dalai Lama is everything. You ask a question of “is it not barbaric…?” Well, I’ll ask you this: Is it not barbaric that Chinese soldiers strip naked teenage Tibetan girls and torture them with electric cattle prods, just because they expressed their own culture?
How can you understand the history of China and Tibet more than a victim of the brutal dictatorship that is the CCP/PRC? Would you call a victim of torture stating facts about their experiences a “disgruntled traitor”?
Tan Lye Huat, you are living in a bubble. Do not simply take as gospel truth lies that have been propagated by a biased, totalitarian government that controls all media from the history books you study in school to what you can access on the internet. Go and find an exile Chinese human rights protester and tell him or her that he/she is a traitor. I’d like to see their reaction.
Mr John Keeley, Your statement that ‘the Dalai Lama is everything’ shows very nakedly that you are biased and indoctrinated by a particular religion. It is very difficult to reason with a doctrinaire and agitated person. Nevertheless, I suggest you cool down and take a cup of chocolate. You may wish to note that Tibet has been part of China for hundreds of years and that even the Dalai Lama has repeatedly stressed that he is not seeking independence from China. China has 56 ethnic groups, the Han Chinese being the majority. You gave examples of Chinese responding to the display of the Tibetan flag, and yet you failed to realise that it was those misguided desperadoes who first started the fight by deliberately displaying the separatist flag. Please give up all hatred and anomisty, and learn from a non-religious philosopher,Confucius, who taught that ‘With the four seas, all men are brothers.’
Tan Lye Huat: I did not say that for me the “Dalai Lama is everything”. He is not. I said that for TIBETANS the “Dalai Lama is everything”. This was a response to your demands that culture should be respected. I was agreeing with you.
Now you patronise me and tell me that it is very difficult to reason with a “doctrinaire and agitated person” and that I need to “cool down and take a cup of chocolate”. Like I said before, go and ask someone abused by Chinese soldiers for expressing themselves whether they are a “doctrinaire and agitated person”. YOU are a “doctrinaire and agitated person”. All you do is quote CCP propaganda of the “56 ethnic minorities” and “Tibet has been part of China for hundreds of years”. IT HASN’T. And you say that, for example, Australians in Australia started the fight because they were peaceful protesting in their own democratic country, holding Tibetan flags??? Theirs was a non-violent expression. In typical PRC/CCP/PLA/PSB/PAP fashion, the peaceful expression was made into a violent incident by Chinese. IN A DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY WE HAVE FREEDOM TO DISPLAY THE TIBETAN FLAG. Chinese do not have the right to beat up citizens in foreign democratic countries, just because they disagree with something. If Chinese in foreign countries don’t like what they see – go home, back to your oppressive government. And remember your own words: “It is barbaric to come to someone’s house and start a fight”.
I disagree with Chinese policy in Tibet, but I don’t go round beating up Chinese guests in my country. Because I have no “hatred and animosity”. I want the same human rights for Tibetans as I want for Chinese. I don’t want Chinese to be imprisoned and tortured for their beliefs.
It’s ironic that you should quote Confucius. I understand that he wasn’t always in favour with China’s rulers. And now he is celebrated. The Dalai Lama springs to mind. Right now he is seen as “evil” by the government, but increasing numbers of Chinese are converting to Tibetan Buddhism and following the teachers of the Dalai Lama. Maybe you haven’t heard about it. That’s because they are scared and they don’t shout about it. As Confucius said: “An oppressive government is more feared than a tiger”.
What is “An oppressive government is more feared than a tiger”. “And remember your own words: “It is barbaric to come to someone’s house and start a fight”.” ????
Enjoy reading the below:-
Western Leaders Are War Criminals’
By Mick Meaney - RINF | The former Prime Minister of Malaysia, Mahathir Mohamad, has echoed calls for Western leaders to be charged with war crimes over the invasion …
rinf.com/alt-news/contributions/western-leaders-are-war-criminals/
Mr John Keeley, I am glad you have finally become less agitated. As to your point that the Dalai Lama represents Tibetan culture, let me tell you you are completely misguided. Among those Tibetans living outside China, they disagree with one another and they have actually formed different sects. The Dalai Lama had openly and repeatedly voiced support for the Beijing 2008 Olympics but his calls had fallen on deaf ears. It is unfortunate that he has lost much of his influence among the Tibetans living outside China. His influence in Tibet is even more bleak. If he were so infuential in Tibet, the whole of Tibet would have been like Palestine, but it was not. You did say you had visited Tibet. How could it be possible if the whole region were a war zone?
When I first visited Beijing in 1990, I was surprised to see young Tibetans in their traditional costumes queuing to enter Mao’s mausoleum. When I visited Beijing again a few times, the last being in last April, I never failed to see Tibetans in their traditional costumes having a good time in the Forbidden City. If you sincerely believe in democracy, then you must allow me to air my views. For your information, I am not from mainland China. I was born in a South-east Asain country and have toured China as much as I have toured Western countries. I do not accept any religion and that is why I am never dogmatic. And because I am not dogmatic, I do not think that democracy is the best or only way to govern a country. If you allow me freedom of expression under the guise of democracy, will you keep quiet if I step on the Union Jack, spit on the Queen’s portrait and dip the American flag in faeces? You probably would not and I would never do such a thing because I embrace the teachings of Confucius. I treasure manners and good behaviour. I think non-religious Confucius had given mankind, more than two thousand and five hundred years ago, one good method of governing a state. Within the four seas, all men are brothers. We must never blame heaven or other people. China has come to realize the rich legacy of Confucius and the Chinese government is now promoting harmony among people all over the world. The Olympic torch run was a hard-to-come-by opportunity for the Chinese people to reach out to the rest of the world. The majority of the people in the whole world are peace-loving, and if you fly to Beijing today, you will see many happy Europeans and Americans enjoying their stay in China. China is now the top destination for Japanese tourists. Unfortunately, there are surely some disgruntled people who advocate hatred, war, revenge and bloodshed. In the name of freedom, one desperado tried to hurt a defenseless torch bearer, a lady in wheelchair. Hatred and revenge became the order of the day when the Olympic Torch had its run in the democratic countries. I believe you are an intelligent man and I sincerely hope you will give up hatred, animosity and revenge. Please don’t do what the terrorists do: to perpetuate hatred and revenge all in the name of religion. Good luck.
[...] and colleague Noel Hidalgo, who was in China covering the Olympics as a citizen journalist, was deported for livestreaming a protest in Tiananmen Square. He’s safe at home now, but wow what a [...]
Yes, we need to mind our manners as guests…and follow our host’s order to go to the reserved park area to protest. That would be in line with the Confucius teachings embraced by CCP nowadays, unlike in the days of Culture Revolution and Gang of Five.
@Ben…
that would be Gang of Four ;)
Tan Lye Huat, please do not patronise me about how agitated you think I am or was, or how misguided. Do not jump to conclusions.
You are right that Tibetans in exile are not singular in their views, but the overall majority have faith in the Dalai Lama as a religious and political leader. While some may not agree with him politically, they have not lost faith in him. I can promise you that much. The Dalai Lama made a huge compromise with his middle way approach, but if there have been any “deaf ears”, they are those of the Chinese government and people who refuse to compromise. And this is why there is still a Tibet issue. I think you will find that his influence inside Tibet is not bleak at all. Well, it’s bleak for the CCP, but it’s not bleak for Tibetans. More than one hundred protests inside Tibet this year, and every report tells of how the protesters were calling for the return of the Dalai Lama. It is, however, rather bleak that people are arrested, imprisoned, tortured for doing so. Tibet is not Palestine. Israelis and Palestinians are in agreement that there is a problem. With Tibet, China projects an image of calm and normality. China wants the tourist dollar, just as it wants every other resource that Tibet has to offer. But this spring, Tibet did turn into a war zone with de facto martial law. Journalists and tourists were kicked out, a curtain was drawn, and the army sent in. We know that behind the curtain is anything but calm and normality. “Chinese government is now promoting harmony among people all over the world”, you say. I say that it’s a shame that it’s a barefaced lie. Hypocrites! You refer to Tibetans “having a good time” in the Forbidden City in Beijing. Clearly they are being manipulated. What Southeast Asian country were you born in, and where were your parents born? I would like to know.
By the way, dogma is not exclusively a religious phenomenon. Therefore, to say that you are never dogmatic is actually quite ridiculous. I think now you need to follow your own advice: go and have a cup of chocolate and calm down!! You’re quite dogmatic when it comes to Confucius, I feel. And sticking up for the status quo in China. So dogmatic that you don’t even see that you’re doing it.
I would be happy for you to protest against my government if you object to its actions. I would rather you pointed this out than I spend my life living in ignorance and denial. Maybe if you step on the Union Jack or spit on the Queen’s portrait I will be a little upset. But I won’t beat you up for flying the PRC flag, just because I disagree with the PRC’s policies. There is a big difference. You say there are “many happy Europeans and Americans enjoying their stay in China”. I too enjoyed my stay in China – and in Tibet, under China (although the way Tibetans are treated makes me feel sick). But we vote with our feet. We go home.
Have a read of this fascinating article: http://www.rfa.org/english/news/baotong-08062008132212.html
As for the Olympic torch relay: when protesters tried to snatch the torch from an “able-bodied” torch bearer, there was one response. When a protester tried to snatch the torch from a disabled torchbearer, there was another response. Isn’t that rather patronising for the “defenceless” torch bearer? Especially as she is an athlete with probably more physical strength and stamina than the average person on the street. The protester tried to snatch the torch from her. The protester didn’t try to “hurt” her any more than protesters tried to “hurt” other torch bearers. The claims that she was attacked were drummed up by Chinese propagandists. As you say, “Hatred and revenge became the order of the day when the Olympic Torch had its run in the democratic countries”. People were angry at what was going on in Tibet and the blood on the hands of the Chinese government. As for “revenge”, I think you have to attribute some of the hatred and much of the revenge to the Chinese who beat up Australians in Australia and Koreans in Korea. Then there was the Chinese student in America who tried to encourage calm dialogue between “pro-Tibet” and “pro-China” students. She was threatened by Chinese people who wanted revenge, telling her she would die when she returned to China. Meanwhile, her family in China were forced into hiding by zealous and dogmatic (of the non-religious kind) nationalistic fanatics.
Please give up your patronising tone and stop lecturing me on giving up “hatred, animosity and revenge”. Nothing I have said is “in the name of religion”. It is in the name of human rights and people (including Chinese) being able to express their views without living in fear of oppression. Please don’t do what the terrorising oppressors do (i.e. the security organs of the PRC): perpetuate hatred and revenge and crimes against humanity in the name of the Party.
Good luck to you too.
[...] deportados do país por se envolverem em protestos relacionados ao Tibete, sendo o único que transmitiu e registrou suas ações em tempo [...]
Tan Lye Huat, I’d like to suggest you learn better English skills so that you can champion your propaganda a little more effectively, rather than coming across like a government parrot. Your choice of words are loaded and poorly chosen (ie: barbaric), arguably, the Chinese government needs to chill out and let freedom run its course rather than trying to rule over basic free speech. Peace out and two thumbs up for liberty and freedom of speech. Perhaps over time, China will get with the times and learn to relax. Cheers to Noel on the vlog! I’ll pass that along. ;-)
To Mr John Keeley, I am sad that you have reverted to agitation and dogmatism. So blinded were you that you had refused to believe that one desperado had tried to snatch the torch from a lady in wheelchair. You have continued to show so much hatred, anger and revenge instead of learning to be rational. There is no point exchanging views with you. May age eventually mellow you and make you see harmony and love instead of hatred and revenge. Good bye.
“You are right that Tibetans in exile are not singular in their views, but the overall majority have faith in the Dalai Lama as a religious and political leader. While some may not agree with him politically, they have not lost faith in him. ” ?
Da Lai is just a Name , the person selected to be “Da Lai” should possess good and true spiritual quality. Unfortunately, I can’t see that in present. Do Buddha (buddhism)teach us to be political leader ?? I completely lost my faith in a person, I have Faith in the Truth.
Tan Lye Huat, I have not “reverted to agitation and dogmatism” and I 100% acknowledged that a protesters tried to grab the torch from a lady using a wheelchair. My point was that she herself was not “attacked” any more than any of the other torch bearers, but the patronising and desperate CCP media made a bigger deal out of the issue than it really was - and patronised the torch bearer in the process. I see you take the same patronising tone to her, to me, and to “China’s minorities” as the CCP does. My argument is 100% rational, calm, without “anger and revenge”. I am having an interesting conversation with you, and I would like to continue this conversation so we can both understand each other better, even if we continue to disagree. I think Confusius would think this a good thing, don’t you? He would disagree that there is not point in discussing further, I’m sure. But you are not an enlightened being, it seems. You come here and speak a lot of Party propaganda, but when you are challened to an in-depth discussion, when your claims are analysed and pulled apart, you haven’t got a leg to stand on. You accuse others of anger, revenge and so on, and you run away like a child. You must stop your patronising tone. It is desperate. I am 68. If I’m waiting for age to mellow me, then I’d better live to 100.
Talk to you soon, child of the CCP.
during the 90’s i spent well over a year spread across 5 visits, living with tibetans exiled in india..
every time i visited there were ‘new arrivals’ who spoke of utterly shameful abuses heaped onto them at home.. these abuses went well beyond beatings and intimidation.
Tan Lye Huat - who are you working for?
there is no shame in being proud of your country - i am proud to be english.. however awful the countries past has been and however i might disagree with our current foreign policy.
the difference is that to be proud of my country also means to challenge my governments methods and bring about descent in order to express my opinions.
being proud of your country, to my mind, is all about expressing your personal opinion.. educating yourself on it’s history and making a judgement therein..
you are clearly proud of your country as well, although there is a big detractor.. will you not acknowledge the ethnic cleansing which tietans have had to endure?
after all - when someone ‘brutally’ starts a fight in your home and refuses to leave when asked, it is difficult to have any respect for them, or relate to what they find to be proud off in life.
Mr John Keeley, Let me give you a gist of what Confucius had said:’At 15, I have devoted myself to learning; at 30, I have established myself; at 40, I have understood many things and am no longer confused; at 50, I have known my mission; at 60, I have been able to distinguish between right and wrong in other people’s words; at 70, I have been able to act freely without breaking any rules.’
I regret that at the age of 68, you have been devoting your time to criticizing China, knowing very well that you will achieve nothing out of it. Why not use your time to do something concrete for your poor people at home? Why not help the poverty-stricken blacks? Why not help the poor in Africa, Philippines, etc?
If you stand for democracy and freedom, then you should allow me to air my views. You should know that democracy had produced Hitler. You should know that the largest democracy in the world, India, has been ruled by Nehru, his daughter (Indira Gandhi), his grandson (Rajit Gandhi) and now his grand daughter-in-law, pulling the strings behind PM Singh. Mao’s children never succeeded him; Deng’s children never succeeded him; Jiang’s children never succeeded him, and Hu’s children have not been lined up to succeed him. So, you see, no system is perfect. Both democracy and communism have their flaws and idealism.
Communism came from Karl Marx (a Jew) and he derived his ideas from Jesus (also a Jew), who clearly propounded that ‘in the eyes of God, all men are equal.’ Marx’s ideal was an economic utopia where this could be achieved: ‘From each according to his ability; to each according to his needs.’ At this stage, all men will be really free. But this is an idealism and it is hard to achieve it.
Democracy came from another Jew, Benedict Spinoza (1632 - 1677), who influenced John Locke and Thomas Jefferson. The Declaration of Independence first drafted by Jefferson echoes Spinoza. I am a fan of Spinoza and also of his devoted follower, the great genius, Albert Einstein (also a Jew). I believe that if the works of Confucius had been translated and then read by Spinoza, Spinoza would have been able to come out with even more concrete ways to rule a state.
In democracy, you do not impose your views on others and deprive others of their freedom. Why do you insist that the American or British system is superior to the Chinese system and that if China does not go the way of the West, then it must be condemned? When billions of people throughout the world longed to see the first Olympic Torch Run, why did a minority disgruntled so-called rights activists try to impose their view and prevent the majority from enjoying and sharing the fun?
It is indeed good that Confucius is once again influencing the Chinese people. The starting point of Confucius is that ‘Within the four seas, all men are brothers.’ With the guiding hand of Confucius, you have peace and love. But the starting point of so-called rights activists is discrimination: ‘You are bad, I am good. I am right, you are wrong.’ And with discrimination come hatred, revenge, violence and bloodshed.
Although I am not a mainland Chinese but of Chinese descent, I applaud what China is now trying to do. China is changing very fast, and its leaders are trying to find the best way to govern the country, having shelved many communist flaws. Confucius is clearly the answer and the stress on harmony should be praised by people of all creeds and beliefs. With harmony, there will be no war. One thing is sure: China will NEVER insist that other countries adopt its system.
To ‘loving JK’ bowen, I am sorry to say that your starting points were all wrong. Firstly, I am not from mainland China but of Chinese descent. Secondly, why did you talk to the minority Tibetans in India, who had fled Tibet because they were disgruntled, instead of visiting and talking to the majority Tibetans in Tibet?
[...] Via Valleywag Globalvoices [...]
Tan Lye Huat, actually, I work for a charity that helps disadvantaged people in the UK. They are free to speak about their situation of being disadvantaged without being arrested. Actually, I have spent time writing letters for Amnesty International campaigns calling for the release of Chinese citizens imprisoned for voicing their opinions that happen to differ from the Party line. ACTUALLY, it seems you jump to conclusions. Earlier you expressed that you hoped I would “mellow” with age when you had no idea how old I am (I am not 68. That was a test to see your reaction). On the other hand, if I had said I was 18, you would have patronised me some more. Because you don’t have real arguments to back up your claims. You avoid the issues being discussed and scurry around looking for distractions. You make assumptions. That I “devote my time to criticising Chinese”. Are you not forgetting that the Party has taught you that Tibetans are Chinese? I didn’t criticise them, did I. But of course, we know the truth. You know the truth. You want Tibetans to be Chinese just as long as it suits you, to justify the occupation of Tibet. But ultimately, you know they’re not Chinese. Because you jump to conclusions, you think I am anti-Chinese. And because you don’t listen (or read with concentration), you think I am anti-Chinese. Actually, I have written work that has been published about the plight of Chinese immigrants in America in the late 19th and early 20th century. To do this I interviewed Chinese-Americans. This is because I do not hate Chinese.
Tan Lye Huat, I have not tried to stop you airing your views. I have just challenged your views. Can you not see the difference? There seems to be a parallel here again between you and the Party’s over-sensitive reactions. When a Chinese citizen airs his or her views, if they happen to differ from the Party’s views, the Party cannot stand to be challenged. The citizen is silenced – often brutally. When a Westerner criticises China, the Party says “you have hurt our feelings”. How many times have I read in Chinese media (yes, I read Chinese news every day) that “the feelings of the Chinese have been hurt by Western criticism”. This detracts from the real argument of right or wrong. You cannot stand to be challenged and you make claims that I am trying to silence you, that I am angry and agitated, just because I challenge your views. Like I told you already: if you criticise my government or my people for our actions, I am happy to listen to you. I will not silence you. I will welcome your comments and I will listen. I might even agree with you. I will not hide behind “hurt feelings”, and if I was the government, I would not silence you.
You speak in polarities: democracy versus communism. What about capitalism versus communism? China is becoming increasingly capitalist, and yet still communist. Is it not possible for it to be more democratic, too? What would Confucius say about your one-dimensional approach and your rigidity? You speak of Indian politics and Nehru’s relatives “pulling strings”. Well, what about the Gang of Four? Was Mao’s wife not pulling any strings when he was on his deathbed? Are Hu Jintao’s offspring not attending good schools and colleges that are denied millions of Chinese? In your form of communism, are some not “more equal than others”? I didn’t say any system was perfect. We agree then, that “both democracy and communism have their flaws and idealism” and no single system is perfect.
You asked me: “Why do you insist that the American or British system is superior to the Chinese system and that if China does not go the way of the West, then it must be condemned?” Can you please remind me where in the text above I actually said that? Again, you are jumping to conclusions about what I think. You are telling lies just to sustain your argument, because you don’t have meaningful answers when your argument is challenged. Actually, I don’t think that the American or the British system is “superior”. Please go back to some examples I gave earlier: culture and freedom of expression. Let’s remove this from the context of Confucius, Jesus, Einstein, Mao, Nehru, Spinoza, Jefferson, Hitler, communism, idealism, dogmatism, cups of chocolate, aging and every other tangent you throw into the debate. You began this trail of discussion by declaring the need to respect culture and not act like “barbarians”. So, when Tibetans express themselves – their culture – and are cracked down upon by a barbaric system; when people are locked up in prison for ten years or more for voicing their opinions or wanting to maintain their culture in their own way (not in the way that has been dictated to them by the Party), and they are tortured – IS THIS RIGHT OR WRONG??? This is the essence of my argument, and has been since I typed the first message above. If you truly believe that this is barbaric and wrong, then you speak out. That is what the protesters have been doing in Beijing. If it hurts your feelings, too bad. Tibetans have been treated like dogs for half a century. What about their feelings? You think it’s okay for a group of men to torture teenage girls with electric cattle prods – even their genitalia? Is this wrong, Tan Lye Huat? Because this is what happens in the PRC.
Back to the Olympic torch, which you keep referring to. You’re missing the point that we in the West saw no enjoyment and fun in parading the Olympic torch through our streets, billed by the Party as “journey of harmony, journey of love” (SICK!) when it was then to be taken through Tibet where people are oppressed? Why did the Party keep Uighurs and Tibetans locked up in their homes when the torch passed through their areas? Why were they not allowed to experience enjoyment and fun? You think we are anti-China, when actually we’re anti-hypocrisy.
If you think that human rights activists “discriminate” and the Party doesn’t, then you are very deluded. I discriminate between right and wrong, yes. China discriminates against Tibetans and their human rights.
Confucius, Confucius, Confucius. There is no end to your dogma. And yet you told me you are not religious and therefore you are never dogmatic.
Your closing remarks: “China will never insist that other countries adopt its system”. I would like to believe you, but I only need to look at Tibet, East Turkistan and Inner Mongolia to see that is not true. And since about a fifth of the world’s population live in the PRC, why does “China” – the CCP rulers – insist that 1.3 billion people have to live according to the CCP’s system? They have no choice. One fifth of the world’s population have no choice.
Lucky for you that you don’t live in China and that your views – which you are so good at expressing with great determination – don’t happen to oppose the Party’s views. Imagine what it would be like if you lived in China and that these strong views of yours and your determination to express them just happened to differ from the Party’s? Hopefully Amnesty International or some other “disgruntled so-called rights activists” might speak out for you. Just think how it could be – how it is for so many in China. Maybe I should follow your advice. You really think I should I forget them?
PS: JK Bowen couldn’t talk freely to Tibetans in Tibet - who live in fear - but once they escape to India they can talk without fear. Isn’t that obvious?
keeley,
1) wearing mask in Beijing is rude
2) Marta and Bela turning sour grapes into sour wine is bad manner
3) British police PURPOSELY ALLOWED a retard FAKE tibetan to push and harrass Jing Jing and Handicap girl is RUDE. On top of that, the ASSHOLE Police shoved and pushed the “Second brother on the right” who defended the flame is RUDE
4) You people calling us CCP, machines, is RUDE
the list continues, I will come back
MuLan, “Handicap girl”? I guess you are referring to an incident that happened in PARIS, FRANCE, not LONDON, UK.
They have French police in France, not British police. Although recently we had PAP thugs in blue and white tracksuits running through the streets of our cities with an Olympic torch. So, anything is possible I suppose.
So an athlete went to Beijing wearing a mask. He was Australian, wasn’t he? Not British?
“CCP, machines” - who said that? Please elaborate as I don’t know what you are referring to.
@ John Keeley #20,
You can tell us whatever you are and what organisation you work for, writing what letters for what you intend to ? howevr, that might be a Fake.
The hidden message I read about your comment is just not of True Equality, especially when you gave your remarks on “coomunist”, “Democracy” and “capitalist”. for example you said, “China is becoming increasingly capitalist, and yet still communist. Is it not possible for it to be more democratic, too?”
Why communist can’t be have the freedom to be capitalist, is that a threat for you people ???
It is good for them.
I agreed with Mr. Tan Lye Huat’s view on the True Philosophy of Communist and Democracy, we have the same view.
“Imagine what it would be like if you lived in China and that these strong views of yours and your determination to express them just happened to differ from the Party’s? Hopefully Amnesty International or some other “disgruntled so-called rights activists” might speak out for you.Hopefully Amnesty International or some other “disgruntled so-called rights activists” might speak out for you. Just think how it could be – how it is for so many in China. Maybe I should follow your advice. You really think I should I forget them?”
Mr. Tan did not ask you to forget anything.
And, people can express their point of view and choose to not follow yours even if you are called “Amnesty International” but not ALL.
Mr John Keeley, So, you had lied about your age and felt audaciously proud of it. Of course, no one could stop you from lying about your age, about China or about everything under the sun. The most I could do would be to urge you to read the works of Confucius. Reading Confucius would benefit you tremendously. You would learn to be honest and forthright. You would get rid of hatred. You would embrace love, and you would love people not so much for the good they have done you but for the good you have done them. Your uncontrollable agitation and anger would disappear and you would become a much happier man.
Please do more for the poor and do not waste your time on frivolity. It is futile to criticize the CCP here because the Chinese leaders would not read our correspondence. We are simply insignificant. For your information, President Bush was the first US President to attend an Olympic opening ceremony outside of the USA. Not only his wife accompanied him on this heart-warming trip, but his daughter and his parents too. They stayed in Beijing for a few days, and like the millions of Americans, they really enjoyed the Beijing Olympics.
Whatever your age, man’s time is limited. Seize the day; seize the hour.
Keeley,
It does not matter to me whether they are brits or french. They look the same to me just people think all Chinese are living under oppression.
Keely,
It’s my fault, I have mistaken French for brits just like they (germany/france/usa/britain/canada/australia) mistaken indians police for Chinese police couple months ago.
Chinese people who protest against the Govenment of China are arresed and imprisoned and in many cases tortured, of course the state controlled media will not admit this to the public will they ? The Media in China is owned and operated by the government so only their point of view is seen. That said, Life is much more free in China now than it was under Mao and life in the coastal cities has also improved, but the fact still stands that people are not allowed the basic right to say “I Disagree” if it is against the CCP. And as for communism and the idea of all men are equal, then why do people that live in Shanghai for example have TVs and internet access while people living a few hundred miles inland do not have electric or running water, it totaly defeats the idea of communism, but the chinese government is making so much money now that they are turning capitalist. And to people here who support the Chinese Communist Party: you are so wrapped up in your dictatorships propaganda that you cannot think for yourselves, so then think about this, when Hitler came to power in Germany (One of the few times that Democracy has failed) The people who diasgreed with the Nazi Party were all killed or imprisoned including members from the Democratic AND Communist Parties of Germany, and gradually people in Germany became brainwashed by the Nazi Parties Propaganda and strongly believed that their government was in the right and everyone else was in the wrong, and because no one was brave enough to speak against the Nazi Party, the German people thought that eveything the Nazis said was gospel as there was nobody willing to say otherwize. The exact same thing is happening in China and because people wont speak against the goverment, many people then believe that the government can do no wrong and is always right. At the end of World War 2, Nazi Germany lay devasted but now Germany is one of the riched coutries in the world, the same with Japan (Who was our common enemy at the time) after it was defeated, Both Germany and Japan abandoned their ditatorship governments and became democracies, it just shows that a dictatorship can turn into a democracy and work. And what about the Tienamen Square Massacre, What excuse does the Communist Party have for that then, hundreds of students killed by machineguns and tanks all because they said they Disagreed with the communist party, Although i suppose people in China are not even allowed to speak about that are they ? It is beyond the reason of any civilised person why anyone would want to live under such a harsh and cruel regiem. Your leaders are just as bad as Hitler or Stalin or Hirihitto, who also brain washed their people. Sooner of later, as is the case of all ditatorships, the Soviet Union for example,the Chinese Government will collapse under its own weight and the people will be free.
Barry, even when China gradually turning toward Democracy and eventually 100% democratic, your government’s dream of getting of piece of China’s land will NEVER EVER come true. get it?
@Barry,
Frankly, more and more people in China these day see what free people of the West are like and say no thanks :P
Hired monkeys climbing posts and hang signs of a foreign language in public do not help things either.
Here is a true story from Germany in 1936. If people dont speak out when something is wrong then this will happen. “At first they came for the Jew , I was not Jewish so I said nothing , then they came for the communists , I was not a communist so I said nothing , then they came for the disabled , I was not disabled so I said nothing , then one day then came for me , and there was no one left to say anything “
Except these monkies are telling the Chinese 1/4 of their country are not theirs; and not even done in their own language.
Doesn’t work too well ;)
Barry,
I said “NO” to your “true ?” Story
Between extreme “yes” or ‘no”. They know how to choose “moderate” for their own progress and benefits for the nation and people
My dear Barry, You were fully misguided and were comparing apples with oranges. Hitler was condemned because of the anti-Semitic genocide that he had committed in addition to many other crimes. Today, nobody of sound mind would praise him. In no way could Hitler be compared with the great Chinese leader, Chairman Mao Zedong.
Chairman Mao unified China and drove foreign imperialists out of the country. President Nixon and Dr Henry Kissinger were mesmerized by Mao’s charisma when they visited China in 1972. Even Deng Xiaoping, who was twice vilified during that tumultuous period, said that Mao was seventy percent right but thirty percent wrong, when asked for his assessment of Mao. What’s more, after Mao’s death, Deng made a point of taking Mao’s only undergraduate grandson to his home for dinner periodically. And this is despite the fact that Deng’s son was thrown out of the window by the Red Guards and is now confined to a wheelchair. Today, the Chinese people still respect Mao, and on my trips to Beijing, I had seen Tibetan youths in traditional costumes queuing to enter Mao’s mausoleum. Everyone in China knew about the Cultural Revolution excesses, but the blame was put more on the Gang of Four than on Chairman Mao himself.
The Chinese have more than five thousand years of recorded history, and two thousand and five hundred years of exposure to the teachings of Confucius. Chinese society is a society of all people. China has no place for the individualism that the West preaches. It is a society that will not allow a minority of disgruntled desperadoes to upset the peace of the majority. The West has always tried to impose its individualistic views on China, having exterminated or marginalized the indigenous natives at home but failed to keep their conquered colonies in perpetuity. Human rights activists, who think highly of themselves, like to teach their grandmother to suck eggs. It is now time for them to know that many Chinese have studied overseas and exposed to Western culture. The Chinese do not need the West to tell them about censorship and propaganda.
My dear Barry, Isn’t the recent Olympic Torch Relay an eye-opener for you? Don’t you know China has the world’s largest number of internet users? Perhaps you would choose not to know the truth but to live in a world of make-believe. But your hideous intent cannot escape from the watchful eyes of the Chinese: all you want is, as you have stated clearly, the collapse of China. Unfortunately, you will be very disappointed. Please just remember one thing: Chinese think in terms of thousands of years.
My dear Barry, Stop wasting your time on frivolity. Why not do something good for the poor people at home or overseas? Why not get rid of your hatred and prejudice, and embrace love and peace?
@Barry # 27
“Sooner of later, as is the case of all ditatorships, the Soviet Union for example,the Chinese Government will collapse under its own weight and the people will be free.”
Yes, Brillant Mr. Tan Lye Huat. We have to keep watch out of this kind of evil intention and make some improvement internally for more Harmony or psychological defend….
MULAN,
Agreed with your comment #28, Chinese must be One, let hidden intention has NO any chance.
To my dearest Tan Lye Huat. You have said the following,
“China has no place for the individualism that the West preaches. It is a society that will not allow a minority of disgruntled desperadoes to upset the peace of the majority.”
There in lies the problem. When a country embraces this type of mentality it alienates the minority(s). You might say,” So what, the majority is still happy and I am still in power.” However prolonged use of this policy can really stir up severe disgruntled feelings in the minority. This in turn generally causes the minority after a certain amount of time to take increasing action of some sort (usually it is violence, just be lucky however that the Tibetans have embraced relative non-violence. The Uighurs are another story). Now this action once severe enough will begin to infringe upon the majority’s peace. A example of this is Israel and Palestine. Even better was the conflict between the Hutus and Tutsis.
In short continued agitation between Tibet, the Uighurs, and the CCP can only result in the destruction of peace that many in China enjoy.
Oh, one more thing, you claim that the Tibet has been a part of China since the Yuan Dynasty. However true that may be it is not history’s duty to decide who a people belong to.
Let the minority decide.
Dear Shackabra, Thanks for your point of view. It’s good to engage in healthy and fair exchange. You may wish to note that China has 56 ethnic groups, the Han being the majority, forming about 90 percent. One minority group, the Manchus, were in power for about 300 years. While in power, they adopted the Han culture, and after the 1949 revolution, many of them gave up their ‘Manchu-ness’ and ignored their culture. Chinese leaders were alarmed and had made it a point to promote Manchurian culture.
Before Mao Zedong had set free the Tibetan serfs, they lived in poverty and were indoctrinated by their religion to accept their fate. To get an idea of what serfdom was, you just need to look at the source where it had come from: India. Today, the caste system is still very well alive in India. To get a good at Lamaism, just compare it with Buddhism. Buddha’s face is always that serene, that compassionate, but the faces of the Tibetan gods are very fierce, scary and greenish. You cannot deny seeing yelling, combative Tibetans tearing down or setting fire to buildings, or struggling with the Nepalese police, their kind hosts. A true Buddhist monk would not do such a thing. Yet, the human rights activists have never done anything more vigorous to help the poor Indians discriminated by the caste system. Instead they have been supporting the disgruntled Tibetans living outside China in the hope of restoring Tibetan serfdom.
Western culture has enriched mankind by drawing a line between religion and secularism, and many great, heroic Europeans had paid with their lives so as to achieve their ideal and benefit future generations. Now, the human rights activists want China to let the Dalai Lama rule Tibet as both the religious head and KING. This hypocrisy of the human rights activists is far too blatant.
My dear Shackabra, you have deliberately suggested religious violence and have mentioned violent Tibetans and Uyghurs. You hope clearly that violent Tibetans and Uyghurs backed by Al Queda will damage and destroy China. But you will be disappointed because the majority of the Americans and Europeans love China and will support China in its fight against terrorism. There are, of course, the minority misguided celebrities like Richard Gere, Nancy Pelosi and Sharon Stone, who was very happy that so many people had died because of karma in the Sichuan earthquake, and indirectly in other disasters all over the world.
My dear Shackabra, Please do not ever advocate violence and please help the poor Indians in India, the impoverish all over the world, etc. China has more than 5,000 years of recorded history and has been under the influence of the magnanimous Confucius for more than 2,500 years. Human rights activists should never never teach their grandmother to suck eggs. They should divert their resources to better uses like feeding the hungry in Philippines, Cambodia, Indonesia and many African and Latin American countries.
Chinese people think in terms of thousands of years. When the late Bingxin, a renown Christian writer known for her children’s essays, was asked whether she felt angry to have been vilified during the Cultural Revolution, she retorted: ‘China has a history of 5,000 years. What’s that suffering of a few years?’
We can clearly see How the name of “human right & freedom” was being used by west
“My dear Shackabra, you have deliberately suggested religious violence and have mentioned violent Tibetans and Uyghurs. You hope clearly that violent Tibetans and Uyghurs backed by Al Queda will damage and destroy China. But you will be disappointed because the majority of the Americans and Europeans love China and will support China in its fight against terrorism. There are, of course, the minority misguided celebrities like Richard Gere, Nancy Pelosi and Sharon Stone, who was very happy that so many people had died because of karma in the Sichuan earthquake, and indirectly in other disasters all over the world.”
Okay first off lets get some things strait. Nancy Pelosi is a politician not a celebrity. Sharon Stone is Sharon Stone, everything she says you must take with a lot of salt. I know for a fact that these too where not happy when they heard about the quake. I know I was not. Such loss of life is tragic and horrible.
You also said that I “clearly” hope that violence will ensue China, which is certainly not the case. You may have misunderstood me. I was merely stating that when a minority is ignored, violence is usually the result.
Yes, most europeans and americans support any cause against terrorism but that does not mean that they love China. Many blue-collar workers in the west are not so happy as you believe because their jobs were outsourced to countries such as China and Taiwan.
Perhaps instead of bickering back and forth, (we are going nowhere this way), we could state each other’s position and where we are coming to each other. Which would force us to listen.
Are you open to this?