One (possibly) last protest post before we get back on topic around here; first is the pseudo-guerrilla Exodus 8:1 mission of Christian activist Eddie ‘iamgadfly' Romero for human rights in China which has seem him paint murals on the walls of at least 2 rooms in upscale Beijing hotels and then go into hiding. He is still tweeting, however, and uploading videos to YouTube.
And today, a protest held by a group of American Free Tibet activists has been streamed live on Qik.com by intrepid citizen reporter @noneck; further footage is being uploaded as this is being posted:
Most recent tweet from @noneck (aka Noel Hidalgo) came less than an hour ago; the video he mentions appears to be this clip:
I'm qik'n an awesome video of a protest i saw in t sq. The frosting came from a cbc camera man who got his passport stolen by police
Lhadon Tethong from Students for a Free Tibet did something similar this time last year when she also went ‘underground', hiding from Chinese authorities as she continued to livevlog her quest to get IOC president Jacques Rogge's attention.
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I don;t understand how the costly vandalism of private property constitutes giving a voice to the voiceless and why GVOL would propagate this video…
The missionaries memorialized by the people of Nanjing were those who risked their lives and freedom to save others during WWII while living and suffering with the people they aided. These guys spent a fortune on high-tech toys, airfare and such that could have gone a long way toward building a school or library, and been much appreciated, in an impoverished province like Gansu or Sichuan.
Well, one of the few times where
Christian minister = vandal.
pure and simple..he also skipped on the bills. Now is this how a pastor suppose to behave?
I consider myself a strong supporter for human rights, but these “demonstrations” at TianAnMen so far are just pathetic. Their effect will be zero if not even negative. They don’t involve the Chinese people at all and are just ignorant. In the end people will have the impression that the CCP is right to ban protesters. They are doing a disservice to the HR movement.
BTW: there are also many other people suffering from the lack of HR in China, are they less important than the Tibetans? Everybody deserves HR!
The idiot vandalizing hotel rooms is plain stupid.
I hope he gets caught “red-handed” and punished.
The Tiananmen incident is incredible. This is going to turn into a new training video for Beijing police.
First of all, there’s no way that protest should have even got started. It went on far too long before police intervention. I can’t understand how those protesters had sufficient time to set up that theater in the middle of Tiananmen Square with people just laying there waiting to be arrested. I’ve seen much quicker arrests when Chinese citizens are involved, so maybe the police were just being Confucianly courteous to protesters from afar.
Next, when are Beijing plainclothes police ever going to learn how to deal with the Tibet flag? After confiscation you don’t walk around with them for bystanders to see, which brings me to the next point in my lesson (I should get 50 yuan for the previous one!)…why the parade?
There is absolutely no excuse for plainclothes police to escort foreign “Free Tibet” protesters all around the northeast perimeter of Tiananmen Square. When Chinese citizens see plainclothes Chinese cops walking around with a protester in one hand and a Tibet flag in the other, what are they supposed to think? Are these chanting foreign protesters being led on a cheap tour of Beijing? “This is Tiananmen Square, over here is the National History Museum, now we go around the corner toward Wangfujing…”
Beijing police should have black bags to put the Tibet flags in, and there should be a van parked right next to Tiananmen Square ready to take protesters away promptly and quietly. (Two tips in one sentence = 100 yuan!)
Disgusted American citizen here. I am tired of these self serving individuals claiming to support Tibet or any place else. If they really want to do something positive then start in your own backyard. Have you even bothered to notice how prisoners are treated at Guantanamo bay? How illegal immigrants are treated? Have you noticed our selective involvement in world affairs? The DPRK is a greater threat to stability than Iraq or Iran but, oh that’s right, they have no oil or anything else of value so where do are troops go? Before these self absorbed idiots go protesting they should learn what is really going on in the world and they can start by learning some of China’s 5000 year history. If they are so adamant about helping Tibet then let them give up all their possessions and become monks.
At the very least leave the protesting on the back burner until the Olympics are over. This is about athletic excellence and should not be used for personal political aspirations.
shall Noel and JK, conceive the whereabouts of this alleged “Christina” ? Or are two gonna pay the bills for him ?
[...] day after live-vlogging the rare phenomenon that is a loud free Tibet protest in the middle of Tiananmen Square, Noel [...]
I support human rights, agree that things need to change in Tibet, and am a Christian - but most of the people in this post are just ridiculous. The Christian “pastor” should know better than to vandalize and destroy property - OMBW is right, he should have spent that money to help build schools for Chinese children or something. This “pastor” isn’t helping anyone, and he sure isn’t helping the image of Christianity in his country.
…and the Tibet protesters? What a joke. All that self-serving protest did was piss off a lot of Chinese bystanders. Why don’t these protesters ever try actually engaging the Chinese people? Protests like this make things worse, not better.
quite right, foreigners protesting in tiananmen square will achieve nothing, if the CP was worried about them they’d get treated a lot harsher a lot quicker.
It’s the worst form of tokenism, as the above poster says, if you want to change the world, tidy your own house first before you go round to others and criticise. There’s nothing more ridiculous than hearing on the radio the other day the sound of americans in tibet shouting “stop the occupation”
Could people here not talk about politics, and how you know China, how much understanding about this country and this nation? You only see some small groups of people daily shouting their slogans against China’s human rights or Tibet topics, but have you ever visited there?
Friend, please go there, if you go there with a right intention, without any deliberately intentions, I bet you’ll enjoy the life in China. I bet you’ll love the people there. I bet you’ll find it so different a world from what you get from medias.
On the contrary, people in China do not show so much enthusiasms in politics, people live in very good life and homony there. Thus if you ever go, please never take the slogans to disturb people’s life there.
Respect and mutual respect deserves the praise.
Why so many westerner are so confident about their knowledge of Tibet, do you really see tibetans are prisoned or tortured ? You Fucking idiots ,You’re simply your western media tools ,you’re fooled around by these media just for fun , but tibet is a serious matter to Chinese , We Chinese all know our own history ,it has nothing related to communist party , it’s 5000 years history of our own.
As far as I can I see the tibetans around me are more superior than Han race , they’re allowed to carry long knives to protect themselves for religious respect, and they use the knives to fight and slash Hans , its just legal for them to take knives , most tibetans are super rich ,cause Hans devote their money to buddha , they just steal the money and spent by themselves .
Dalai are popular in western , cause you’re ignorant ,tibet is part of china and not Dalai’s kingdom , you’re fighting for nothing , pathetic western idiots ,go to learn some history .
Notice how these things are always done in ENGLISH (or some other language) but not in Chinese — especially the guy in the second video.
That alone is an immediate indication that involvement of the Chinese people was never included or considered in their action plans.
I guess when you think about the general strategy of these groups, particularly the Free Toad Bed groups, which is to (1) bring light to their cause, (2) get the foreign governments to exert pressure on China, and (3) secure Tibetan independence, it makes perfect sense.
Don’t take my words for it, take a look at what Patrick French has to say about it. If you don’t know who he is, try googling.
http://tinyurl.com/58y2sq
http://tinyurl.com/36tffb
Dude, get a clue. Talk to us, instead of just pissing the us off and turn the people against your cause.
My English is not very good, so I’m not sure wheather I could made myself understood to you. I have read above words, I feel I have to say something to you!
I’m a common Chinese girl, and I live an ordinary life in BeiJing. I write these words just want to tell you how a Chinese girl see HR and Tibet!
I really can’t understand why so many foreign people think HR is very bad in China. Have you ever been to China? Have you seen how is the Chinese people living by your eyes not from the media?
I was born in a small city in Northeast China. My father is a bus driver, and my mother is a housewife,My familly is not very rich, but we live a happy life. After 1980, our life becomes better and better. If you have been to China in the80’s, you’ll feel the tremendous changes.
The generation of my age have fair chance of education, good medical treatment, and equal opportunity. We get what we want by our effort, and I think the society is fair to everyone. We live a happy life here, not only me ,but all the people around me. If you ask Chinese people if they think HR is a problem in China, I believe above 90% people will say no. HR problem is a ridiculous saying, most of the Chinese believe they live a happy life, but you foreign friends think it is serious, isn’t it ridiculous?
Please come to China!!! See a real China by your eyes, not through the media!
As for Tibet, I haven’t been to there ,but one of my friend’s brother runs a store there. He said the Han nationality people got very well with local people. The Tibet people’s life is happy and free. Foreign friends, if you want to say someting of Tibet , please read the history of Tibet, and come to Tibet, or you have no right to talk about it!
At last, I want to say, China is a peace-loving country, Chinese people have good emotion to all the people in the world. Don’t hurt our feeling. Welcome to China! See it by your onw eyes,no prejudice, no deliberate intentions.
Welcome to China!
All these “acts” dirtied the true moral of of true human right of man kind. I see them as just ugly political motives and are of very negatively meaningless. They are causing Disturbance to Peace.
China has to feed 1/5 population in this world, and which country has ever achieved this success to eliminate the poverty, and get people warm? Is it not also part of human rights? Now tell me!
What high-tech toys? You child ever get poison? And this investigation result has come out, hasn’t US government told you? All the responsibility is due to US buyers design. Please comment on something before you know it.
So far as China and Tibet, how much you know? How much understanding you know about this country and nation history? You only see people there rude shouting against China’s government, but have you ever visited there?
Friends, please go there, go Tibet, no one would stop you going, but you should abide by Chinese law in China, you should not disturb people’s peace life. If you have a good intention to travel China, I bet you’ll enjoy the life definately. I bet you’ll love the people there. I bet you’ll find it so different a world from what you get from medias.
On the contrary, people in China do not show so much enthusiasms in politics, people live in very good life and homony there.
Respect and mutual respect deserves the praises.
I want to say that the criticism of the western protesters in Beijing is very sensible. I concur with this consensus, finding many good points in the above comments.
But then things changed. The simple-minded fenqing showed up again. Continuously as I read their comments the thing that strikes me more than anything is the low level of intellection reflected in their writing. It’s not so much a matter of poor English skills as simply a manifestation of a very, very mediocre mind. And again the mantra, “you don’t understand China, you don’t understand China”, as if there were something unfathomable and arcane beyond the dark mystery of its ineptitude and wretchedness itself that no westerner could ever understand, or any other countrymen of this world outside of China for that matter. Didn’t they even notice that westerners were actually lending an apology to them for the behaivor of the protesters?
Just one word, Tibet, and the fenqing are off to the races! I’ve come to really wonder what the actual attachment is to Tibet for most of them given that they probably live hundreds if not several thousand kilometers from it, and have no relationship to the indigenous culture in any real way. Clearly, this is a reflection of Chinese groupthink. The Chinese have a collective soul that can apparently think in no other way.
Perhaps, however, the fenqing are right. It is impossible, ultimately, to understand the Chinese. They are like no other human souls on the planet. The rest of the world has some charm and wit, and provide good human company, from South America and the sub-continent to the Sahara. My idea of hell would be to be locked across a table from a Chinese guy for eternity, having to politely pretend you were enjoying his society .
Frankly, I wish China would politely self-quarantine itself again for several more hundred years, if only because they’re horrendously boring. Got it, fenqinq?
And when this little party your bosses were allowed to throw is over, do the rest of the world a favor: make yourselves scarce.
Just planting seeds…
Hey Ant,
Your above comment above clearly shown certain minimum level of intellection, once again it shown me and firmed my point of view towards those people who had commented like you
I think the reason they don’t bother involving Chinese people in human rights demos about Tibet is that practically no Chinese person is willing to even admit that there might be a human rights problem in Tibet. I mean, they are not even willing to consider it, not willing to even think about it. It is a very automatic reaction. At least, that has been my observation. Prove me wrong!
But maybe they should try anyway. Perhaps they will meet that rare person!
yo Ant,
Why don’t you just politely self-quarantine and make yourself scarce.
There is something truly repulsive about sanctimonious a-holes like you, who are infatuated with the smell of their own flatulent.
I don’t know, maybe it is your low level of intellect that prevents you from seeing that people like you are the reason that “fenqings” exist in the first place.
The easiest thing in the world is to levy criticism at other people — to point out what their shortcomings are, to see how they’re doing something wrong. Yeah, criticizing is worlds easier than accomplishing something meaningful yourself.
It is kinda incredibly arrogant to sit back and point out all them flaws without even the vaguest attempt to understand the emotion, the motivation, and the subtle psychological nuisances that drives people and their actions.
But isn’t that exactly what being a critic is all about?
There is something truly lame about just pointing out the problems without any attempt at a meaning solution. Even an idiot can be a critic.
Why don’t you just separate yourself from the herd and use that thing between your ears and think about what all those “fenqings” are all worked up about.
Here’s a clue, it is independent of Toad Bed.
And don’t be scared to ask when you can’t think of anything.
Just planting seeds…
@so_damn_lame:
Calling others ‘a-hole’ is neither respectful nor the least bit creative, so please don’t do it again.
@Kennedy
Sorry about the “a-hole” thing. The “fenqing” in me got the better of me, even though I am well pass the “qing” part.
It is quite good to see that you are playing a much more active role in refereeing these comments. Seeing GVO turned in a road rage forum, like in some of the past threads (wink, wink), certainly isn’t conducive for any meaningful discussion.
And me being party to name calling and mud-flinging, well at least the name calling part, does no favors in advancing my arguments either.
Anyhow, JK, it is good to see that, at least, you are favoring quality over quantity. Thanks!
FEAR is what I saw in that video.
Last time I saw that fear was in the eyes of my family during a mock drill by the National Guard in my hometown. It was in a time called “the cold war!”
As for the man in Tiananmen Square, would it have been a more appropriate thing to do if he was standing in front of a tank. I hoped that some miracle would occur for the Chinese people. For once we could see you, again. We are watching, but nobody is moving. This was your chance. I’m so sorry you let it go by.
Peace,
Dena Liles
A strong faith and belief in something, a good thought that this “something” might bring true benefits to their people, will triger bravery acts.
See clearly the “something”, analyse thoroughly before decided to have bravery acts, for your own good and many many others..
My little Dena,
I am so sorry you miss the whole point of the games and opening ceremony. . . tsk tsk tsk
It’ll be better if they visit Tibet before protesting.
To Lame One:
Am I to suppose that I am speaking to an actual “fenqing”? You seem like you might be a western plant, not the real deal, rather the kind that is surmised to be doing a lot of damage on the internet by passing themselves off as “fenqing” in order to sabotage all the right-thinking and decent fenqing who are fed up and sick tired of being fed up and sick and tired, and don’t like being criticized by “sanctimonious ##%#” like myself who point out that their poor critical thinking skills are the result of growing up in a culture and society that doesn’t instill or encourage critical thinking skills, not to mention an education system purposely designed to turn their minds to pancake batter. But your true identity is beside the point.
I apologize to you, Lame One, for having not taken the proper amount of time to analyze why the fenqing exist in the first place.
The consensus is that they exist because they are VERY INSECURE about their Chinese identity, and that their insecurity is a reflection of the very insecurity that their Pig Authorities, who have self-servingly egged them on like Orwellian Dogs, feel in the face of a restive population that engages, by the Party’s own admission, in political demonstrations 80,000 times a year (or once every five seconds), of whom 20% exist at or below international poverty levels of $1 per diem (but not including those who exist on $2 per diem in the world’s most overpopulated country, which would probably double the figure, at least), and that they do so because they live in a land fraught with corruption, labor and human rights abuses, and environmental deterioration that will probably lead to a state of ecological barbarism in a short time soon. The list of ills is really too long to mention, and all on scale that would turn just about any other countryman’s head around, 360. If I were Chinese, I think I’d feel deeply insecure, too, particularly if I were a fenqing.
Yet, the fenqing comprise that segment of the younger population that lives well above the economic figures previously mentioned, and who have nothing to believe in but what what the Party tells them to believe in, namely a China that is really “going somewhere”, despite the fact that it is really one enormous house of cards probably living on borrowed time. Further, the fenqing know the main reason that China has gotten as far as it has during their lifetime is as the result of western technology and methodology, and western capital that has built a huge amount of the factories that operate in China which have brought it out of the dark ages. And that bothers them. A lot. But, being human the fenqing need to believe in the goodness of themselves and their society. Human, all too human. Tsk.
However, to your complaint that I didn’t offer a solution, I correct you. I did. I recommended, Lame One, that China self-quarantine itself so that the foul vapors of its authoritarian groupthink don’t befoul the rest of the world, this and the noxious brown cloud overhanging China that now reaches to the Rocky Mtns on a bad day.
Look, I’m going to level with you, I’m even going to back down on my inflammatory rhetoric. We live in a very difficult and crazy world. Indeed, I have some very strong objections to China, but I also have probably some even stronger ones for my own country, America, which in the last 8 years has moved in an absolutely nightmarish direction under Bush. Recent indications show, however, that America is moving politically to the left, which is as positive a sign of life that America has shown in a long time, and that this shift appears to be one that is going to endure for a while as many new voters who have come of age under Bush recognize the enormity of his regime’s actions.
I’m going to make a deal with you. If America can begin to behave like a better global citizen, and I will admit, that’s a big if, then perhaps China can do something about its intrinsic ills, too. I don’t like the direction this world is going. Mother Earth just let out a loud moan this year, and we’d better listen. The soul of both of our countries is going to be strenuously tested in the coming times, and we’d both better be ready to make some major changes with how we operate as individuals, and as a society. The world is going to need a morally stronger America and China if it is going to survive. Take care, whoever and wherever you are.
http://www.chineseantfarm.blogspot.com
Chinese here. Where is your heroic 5-year old pastor still playing peekaboo?
The chinese were discussing about him all over the chinese language forums. He is known as a California community college teacher. And the identity is easily found the web. The hotel, however, is still trying to find the person responsible. Please, some one know Eddie Romero please tell him the overall bill is around $1,430 given the current exchange rate.
Yo Ant,
I am not the one you should make a deal with.
After all I AM a western plant anyway and not a real “fenqing”. That’s not to say that I am not insecure about my “Chinese” identity. Yeah, I am pretty insecure about people pushing their POV, especially on things related to moi, without any consideration for mine.
Yeah, I am truly LAME for hoping that people might just put aside the rhetorics and start communicating as human beings.
And I am even more so for thinking that our buddy, John Kennedy, might have turned a new leaf and begin to foster an environment for meaningful exchange, rather than one that encourage flame wars and mud flinging. Yeah, that was really really LAME of me.
Being so LAME and a western PLANT to boot, I am really not the appropriate person that you should be making a deal with.
If you want to make a deal, it should be with your own person. You maybe the only one that can really ensure that your good intentions don’t end up trampling others (ask if you’re not sure).
Just planting the seeds…
Or dare I hope to seed them grow?
Best
Someone pretty LAME, but not THE LAME ONE.
congratunations!
you may think you must be this year’s american idol,
and ,you did it.
so pathetic… you should thank the police dragging you to the police, or else, you may be beaten by the crowds.