You say, “Innocent people should not be killed”. Exactly. That is what the Palestinians ask for. And yet, every time you kill innocent Palestinian children, confiscate their land, kill extended family of ‘terrorists’, arrest Palestinians without charge and lock them up for years, deny Palestinians access at check points and many of them die while waiting because they seek medical help… I hear you, “Innocent people should not be killed”… but what makes one innocent and what make the other guilty? The sheer “fact” that the guilty is the Palestinian and the “fact” that the innocent is always Israeli?

“Terrorists” lets understand what that means. The state of Israel violates all of the universal human rights laws towards the Palestinians. You refuse them water, electricity, education, food, buying land, building homes, refugees are refused the right of return, you confiscate their land with no legitimate reason, you bulldoze their houses with no previous warning, you settle in an Israeli family in their place, you terrorize them and expand ILLEGAL settlements… Now lets recap, a human being that has no shelter, food, water, education, land, justice, and lives in a constant state of threat and insecurity, what do you expect from this human being? You treat someone like an animal, except him to become an animal, strap a belt of bombs around his waist and then blow himself up… This Yarden, is why you are not secure, because your existence in that area is an injustice, the fact that you are Israeli, and sing the national anthem to an Israeli state that violates the humanity of so many Palestinians, is why you are constantly afraid of terrorist attempts on your life, if you live legitimately, if you are not a settler, then try and change things as an Israeli in the Israeli state to make things fair for the Palestinian, allow them an education, help them live a life outside the ghetto, give them jobs, give them an education in which the Israeli language and rewritten history is not forced down their throats, give them freedom to roam without check points, break down the apartheid wall, just let them be human… and I don’t think anything you ever do will change the fear you live in unless you seek justice, the only man that has a good nights sleep is he who an easy conscience.

And no I would not support Samir Kuntar had he killed that child, but he has not, and Samir Kuntar symbolizes the injustice of Israel to me. He was convicted solely because of one Israeli eye witness and had no other proof.

The Zionist project is not successful. Israel cannot last, especially not after the war on Lebanon. No state can last that relies solely on military force. Israel is not normal. It has to fight, steal land, expand illegally, and kill everyday in order to exist. In Gaza, you need a guard every day, an aeroplane every day, a tank every day, force every day. Terrorism, terrorism, terrorism… how does the aggressor become the victim, it’s the monstrous Zionist myth. What terrorism is, “a technique used by a government to manipulate public opinion in order to further an agenda”.

Yasmine, can you agree that the fighting between Israel and Palestinians don’t have an ultimate victim and an ultimate villain?

In Israel, not all people are exposed to the difficulties of the Palestinian life. All they see is the killing and suffering the suicide bombers cause. The same goes for soldiers. Most just want to protect their family, friends and country from terrorists. The terrorists don’t fight just people that occupy their land or people that kill Palestinians. They kill Israelis without distinction. I never occupied any land. The place I live in was bought legitimately from the Arabs that used to live here. This doesn’t promise me safety. I never chose to be born in Israel or an ideology to suppress anyone. But It’s still possible for me or people I know and are the same to die from Palestinian attacks. I don’t justify killing or hurting innocent Palestinians because I don’t think it’s their fault some other Palestinian killed a Israeli. I don’t think it’s their fault just the same as it isn’t my fault. The child Samir Kuntar killed didn’t oppress anyone. You may not believe Samir Kuntar killed her but at the very least I hope you wouldn’t have supported it if you did think it happened.

This, makes Israel a terrorist state, because it violates human rights laws. This is not allowed, do you understand? It is not an allowed punishment in this day and age. Israel, when it wants to expands its settlements, uses the ‘terrorist’ ticket. No one buys this Gilad, all human rights organizations are trying to stop this, and this is why Rachel Corrie was standing in front of the bulldozer on the day that she died. she sent letters to her family, telling them, these people that I live with, they have nothing to do with terrorism and the Israelis say that when they want to expand a settlement. The state of Israel has no right to confiscate Palestinian land, to give it to an Israeli… if it is not an apartheid racist state, why doesn’t it give the land to Palestinians instead? There are many homeless Palestinians because Israel will not allow them to build homes.

Are you beginning to comprehend the absurdity of what you are saying? No sane educated person will tell you that what you are saying is not a violation of human rights. In the modern world my dear, the punishment is made to fit the crime.

You say I am full of hate, I am full of logic, as a logical person, it is not enough for me to hear you say that this and that are guilty because the state of Israel says so, if you want to convince me, I ask you to provide me with evidence, and documents, and I have searched! None exist. My parents, owned land, that was confiscated from them to build Israeli settlements, and I assure you, neither of us are terrorists, so what happened there?

Samir Kuntar, was sentenced to imprisonment for life, and he confessed to the murder of soldiers, who would have shot him anyhow had they the better aim, but as for the children, he is innocent, maintains that he is so, and the Israeli government was not able to prove otherwise except through the Israeli witness. So excuse me if I am skeptical… As for Kuntar, I celebrate him; he is a triumph for Hezbollah.

You have a version of lies, I have my version of the truth, please provide me with documents and proof, that is provided by the human rights organizations in Palestine and I will be very happy to change my view on things, but if you are asking me to be deaf and blind, then I ask you to excuse me, and excuse anyone else with an iota of intelligence.

I have always been ready to have an actual conversation here, where others are welcome to read, and decline your offer for a personal one. You need not reply, if you have better things to do, I do not comment so that you reply, I comment for the people that read them.

Yasmine – you are so wrapped up in your hate and your version of the truth. I pity you because you celebrate a person who ruthlessly and intentionally kills civilians. Those who intentionally kill civilians should not be praised nor made heroes. There is a lot of criticism within Israel over IDF’s operations, especially those which result in civilian casualties. Those events are not celebrated, but criticized. Why do I not see any internal criticism on your side of the wall? Why are there celebrations upon killing Israeli civilians? I can understand your feeling regarding soldiers, but civilians? kids? Shame on you.

“During that notoriously brutal attack, Kuntar dragged 32 year-old Danny Haran and his 4 year-old daughter, Einat, from their apartment to the nearby beach. He killed Haran by shooting him in the back and then drowning him, while Einat watched. According to forensic evidence and eyewitness court testimony, Kuntar then killed the 4 year-old girl by smashing her skull against the rocks with the butt of his rifle. The Nahariya attack is considered the most brutal in Israel’s history. It is seared on the collective Israeli consciousness.”

It saddens me that even the both of us, authors on this site, cannot have a solid conversation. You do not want to have a conversation, nor do u provide any constructive arguments. You want to point a finger at a satanic enemy you’re too busy creating. I realize that a lot of the misunderstandings between us arise from the fact that we have been presented with different media coverage, different facts, different versions of the “truth”.

If you are ready to have an actual conversation, write personally to my email. Otherwise, I’ve got better things to do.

“But the truth of the matter is that the bulldozer driver was trying to do his job, follow orders, and a highly unfortunate incident occurred. Yes – his job was to crush the home of a Palestinian family whom is directly connected to a terrorist who acted against civilians in Israel.”

Had that been the case,(pls provide me with documents that state so, when the Rachel Corrie murder was covered by the media, Israel went all out to defend itself and yet could not provide such documents, it is the right of the people to see for themselves) and, lets presume what you say to be correct for the sake of argument only, then, what sort of sorry state do you live in the legitimizes the destruction of a family home, in which innocent grandparents and innocent children live because they are ‘connected’ to a terrorist? What law adheres to this? And what law then allows the Israeli to build a Jewish settlement on 100% confiscated Palestinian land? You’re argument, is nonsense, and I know this is the kind of garbage that the Zionist state spews at it’s Israeli citizens, if only you would understand the atrocities that your state is built upon, and the pools and pools of innocent blood. My dear, I see no terrorists but the Israelis, and the Palestinians, are fighting for their land, for their lives, for food, water, education, for their freedom. You fight for a racist and apartheid state, you defend it… Holocaust victims made a promise, they promised, “never again”… Oh, but there you go again, but this time, the victim turned into the monster. As Edward Said emphasised, what the Holocaust is to the Jews, the Naqba is to the Palestinians. Your Holocaust had a beginning, and an end, but ours, its ongoing, the slaughter is ongoing. This will go down in history, and one day there will be justice, because it always prevails, no matter how long it takes, humanity, always, finally rejects injustice… I believe that one day; the Israelis will vomit out their bloody history in an Israeli state of violent inhuman dysfunctional beings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sCRmASPfis

And let us be crystal clear here, I celebrate Samir Kuntar. The criminals, are the Israeli military.

You’d like to think that Corrie was killed with intent, by ruthless militants who only want to destroy a people and drive them to the sea. Satanize this enemy state so its much easier to hate. But the truth of the matter is that the bulldozer driver was trying to do his job, follow orders, and a highly unfortunate incident occurred. Yes – his job was to crush the home of a Palestinian family whom is directly connected to a terrorist who acted against civilians in Israel. The truth is that this event was an accident, and was highly criticized by Israelis and Israeli media. I am in no way justifying her death. What I am trying to present to you is the Israeli perspective, rooted in this main difference: intent and critical thinking. I agree it is a tricky argument, but one thing I am sure of – in order for us to have a dialogue, we must first try our best to understand each other’s perspectives.

As for the Qana events, I like you, was horrified once the details came out. Yasmine – nobody in Israel celebrated these horrible events, the army does not see this as a success. The military’s strategy was to fight and weaken Hezbollah, and gain back the two kidnapped soldiers who were taken from the Israeli side of the border. You have absolutely no right to use the word holocaust. Go back to refresh your knowledge of history before you dare to use that word. There is no systematic killing here, no intentional plan to take down a certain population or race. This is was a war, a shameful war for both sides. But the least we can do is try to learn from the events and make sure that never happens again.

1. Kifah Khalid Zu’rub (Died after Israeli forces prevented him from reaching hospital despite his critical condition caused by settler dogs attack).
2. Ahmad Al’an (He was shot dead near the Shilo settlement as he was driving home to his village of Qaryut.)
3. Kamal Sa’eed Mosalam (He was injured in his head when a settler hit him with stone)
4. Mousa Radi Mahariq (He was killed by 4 live ammunition by Israeli soldiers when he went out of his tent near the Security wall.)
5. Shahed Bassem Abed Al Latif Abu Zitounah (She died when the Israeli soldiers prevented the ambulance carrying her from passing to the hospital.)
6. Abed Allah Fathi Qideh (Died by heart stroke when the Israeli Soldiers prevented the ambulance to take him to the hospital while the Israeli soldiers were entering Khan-Yunis.)
7. Ismail Haboush (Died at Airez checkpoint as soldiers delayed him at the checkpoint for 10 hours while he was going to the hospital)
8. Na’imah Abdel Rahman al-Sheikh Khalel (Died as a result of a nervous shock caused by the Israeli gunfire at Netzarim Junction/ Gaza Strip)
9. Rana Adel Abdel Rahim Hamad (She was stopped at a military checkpoint and prevented from reaching hospital on time and so the baby died first and then the mother.)
10. Hussein Obeyat (Missiles fired from helicopters in Beit-Sahour)
11. Missiles fired from helicopters in Beit-Sahour (Israeli soldiers opened heavy fire outside al-Quds Open University in Nablus)
12. Ahmad Ismail Ayesh (Was shot outside his house)
13. Mahmoud Suleiman al-Madani (Mahmoud Suleiman al-Madani)
14. Yousef Alsakrouji family (Killed in cold blood by an Israeli special unit while they were asleep.)
15. Nazih Mahmoud Mas’od Abu al-Siba’a (was killed by a car explosion while he was walking near to the al-Nur Mosque)

Click onto this link for a list of 6054 documents deaths of innocent Palestinian civilians killed by the Israelis so the that the ‘chosen ones’ set up the state of Israel over the blood of the Palestinians, then weep, and mourn, that they are the ones that are terrorized by the Arabs. How does the aggressor play the victim… Oh, the shame of being Israeli.

http://www.phrmg.org/aqsa/fatalities_list.htm

1. Kifah Khalid Zu’rub (Died after Israeli forces prevented him from reaching hospital despite his critical condition caused by settler dogs attack).
2. Ahmad Al’an (He was shot dead near the Shilo settlement as he was driving home to his village of Qaryut.)
3. Kamal Sa’eed Mosalam (He was injured in his head when a settler hit him with stone)
4. Mousa Radi Mahariq (He was killed by 4 live ammunition by Israeli soldiers when he went out of his tent near the Security wall.)
5. Shahed Bassem Abed Al Latif Abu Zitounah (She died when the Israeli soldiers prevented the ambulance carrying her from passing to the hospital.)
6. Abed Allah Fathi Qideh (Died by heart stroke when the Israeli Soldiers prevented the ambulance to take him to the hospital while the Israeli soldiers were entering Khan-Yunis.)

7. Ismail Haboush (Died at Airez checkpoint as soldiers delayed him at the checkpoint for 10 hours while he was going to the hospital)
8. Na’imah Abdel Rahman al-Sheikh Khalel (Died as a result of a nervous shock caused by the Israeli gunfire at Netzarim Junction/ Gaza Strip)
9. Rana Adel Abdel Rahim Hamad (She was stopped at a military checkpoint and prevented from reaching hospital on time and so the baby died first and then the mother.)
10. Hussein Obeyat (Missiles fired from helicopters in Beit-Sahour)
11. Missiles fired from helicopters in Beit-Sahour (Israeli soldiers opened heavy fire outside al-Quds Open University in Nablus)
12. Ahmad Ismail Ayesh (Was shot outside his house)

13. Mahmoud Suleiman al-Madani (Mahmoud Suleiman al-Madani)
14. Yousef Alsakrouji family (Killed in cold blood by an Israeli special unit while they were asleep.)
15. Nazih Mahmoud Mas’od Abu al-Siba’a (was killed by a car explosion while he was walking near to the al-Nur Mosque)

Click onto this link for a list of 6054 documents deaths of innocent Palestinian civilians killed by the Israelis so the that the ‘chosen ones’ set up the state of Israel over the blood of the Palestinians, then weep, and mourn, that they are the ones that are terrorized by the Arabs. How does the aggressor play the victim… Oh, the shame of being Israeli.
http://www.phrmg.org/aqsa/fatalities_list.htm

In the end, what you are trying to tell me is that the bulldozer did not mean to kill Rachel Corrie, because he was just doing his job, which is to demolish and uproot the home of a Palestinian family… to build a Jewish settlement in its place? Why, what did the Palestinian family do to deserve this? Exist in a racist state called Israel? Well let me tell you something, as an activist, as a human, Rachel Corrie was ‘just doing her job’ too.

Let me try to simply this for you so that we avoid further misunderstandings.

You mourn the death of soldiers that wear a uniform that gives them the license to kill, in my comment to you, I mention one small example out of dozens of innocent Palestinian civilians that were killed by the Israeli military… the first example I mentioned was the child Ayah Al Najjar. The second Rachel Corrie…

In the case of Rachel Corrie, to say that she was not ‘seen’ is completely insane, and no rational person will accept that, as all eyewitnesses on the scene reject that the bulldozers did not see her as well, and those eye witnesses are all international activists, and not Palestinians, they were there, so that they protest the Israeli military’s demolishing of Palestinian homes to build Jewish settlements in their place.

Your line of defense, your claim of innocence in the face of such a violent atrocity committed by the Israelis undermines our intelligence as human beings; no one buys

This is highly unfortunate, but it is also her negligence. This should not happen but was certainly unintentional. The bulldozer was not planning to kill her, just do his job. How can u compare that to the cold-blood killing that Samir Kuntar carried out in Nahariya?