“It is very dangerous to use science to support a particular political argument” Wow, I think you are using your position as a scientist to support politics. So, is it really dangerous? Or is it simply ridiculous? Anyway you remain attached to your blind principal of referendum knowing that it’s not the way to end the conflict and the hard life of people in Tindouf as well.
What I am saying about the links in your honourable blog is that most of them don’t reflect the neutral position you are claiming about the Western Sahara issue. All of them are biased. My request from the beginning is that if you are really sincere and intellectually honest treating the Western Sahara issue, you have to take into account the position of the unionist sahraouis. They represent the majority and they are looking to happy end the conflict. In that respect, I believe you have to put links to their websites and let the reader make his own opinion on the issue without any influence.
CORCAS is real in the Western Sahara region. You have to be aware of that. CORCAS permitted to resolve many social issues. CORCAS is still working on developing the region in peace and harmony. Why are you looking to minimize the sahraoui unionist figures? You have never been in the territories. Your work is limited to the buffer zone and Tindouf camps. So how could you decline the majority aspect of the unionist sahraouis!!!!

I am sahraoui and I am Moroccan and I support autonomy as an ultimate solution and I don’t need money for that (I’ve got some). Morocco is facing the great work of the Algerian “militarian” diplomacy to support the status quo in the region. Algeria gave money to many associations and institutions to support Polisario and separatism in Western Sahara. Polisario has no money to lobby. Every action is sponsored by Algeria. Why not blaming Algeria to maintain the status quo?
The unionist sahraouis made the right choice in 1976 to not follow the Polisario/Algerian militaries to Tindouf camps. They were right and definitely right to stay in their motherland. They have no complex to participate to the development of the region under the Moroccan governorship.
I believe the old fashion concept is yours: plotting monarchies and making revolutions in total anarchy while you, as a UK man, are governed by a Queen!! It’s maybe a frustration from your side the fact that you won’t be able to plot your monarchy in UK. It’s your intellectual problem. In Morocco, the unionist sahraouis are happy to belong to this great nation. We are not slaves as you said unrespectfully. I am bit choked about that. Is that a sign of intolerance or denial of pragmatism?

I’m equally intrigued to see comments about my “so called scientific word”. What is this? My blog posts on Western Sahara have nothing to do with science, and are about politics (with a bit of cultural heritage thrown in). Science and politics are separate beasts. It is very dangerous to use science to support a particular political argument, and I have no interest in doing so in this context. I don’t recall invoking any of my scientific work on past environmental change or human occupation of Western Sahara in prehistoric times in order to support my arguments in favour of a referendum. In fact I don’t see how I could – the science has nothing to say on this matter. This is simply ridiculous.

I don’t recall claiming that life in the Tindouf refugee camps is paradise. This would be a strange claim indeed – as strange as claiming that occupied Western Sahara is a paradise.

I don’t know why Ahmed Salem expects me to restrict the links on my website to those that support the Moroccan occupation and Morocco’s aspirations to annex Western Sahara. This would be perverse indeed for someone blogging against such actions. Nonetheless, when I’ve criticised the Moroccan position I’ve included plenty of links to sites run by or on behalf of the Moroccan state in this regard. And indignation at my inclusion of pro-independence and pro-Polisario sites from someone who links only to CORCAS and other lackeys of the Moroccan state and monarchy is perverse and hypocritical.

I do agree that the arguments should transcend financial considerations. So it’s a pity that so many lobbyists are being paid to push the Moroccan line abroad, especially in Washington. Polisario has also engaged lobbyists, but its pockets are not as deep as those of the Moroccan state, so there is a degree of asymmetry here.

I’m inclined to believe Ahmed Salem when he says he is the voice of the unionist Sahrawi. As he is probably a paid agent of the Moroccan state, and the unionist Sahrawi (who I’m guessing are a tiny minority) are creations of the same state, it’s easy for them to speak as one.

I suspect there are also “pragmatist” (some might say “realists”) Sahrawi living in the occupied areas, who are prepared to accept Moroccan control in the interests of breaking the current deadlock and eventually improving their lot within a greater Morocco. I’m guessing they’re not ecstatic about the idea of having to live under Moroccan rule and don’t have quite the same love of king and country as Ahmed Salem, who seems to believe in the quaintly old-fashioned concept of the divine right of kings, at the same time as he espouses modernity and democracy. However, as we never hear from the Sahrawi pragmatists, the existence of this group must remain speculative. It’s a pity – it might be useful to have a group favouring compromise, who could bridge the gap between those who insist on independence and those who are slaves to Moroccan imperial ideology. The latter are surely either Moroccan or have been bought by the Moroccan state, and represent only that state and the masses that it manipulates with nationalist rhetoric and life-long exposure to its propaganda.

Ahmed Salem

Ahmed Salem

Cheers

Nick

If you have any suggestions as well, please let me know. GV does its best with limited resources (we’re all volunteers, you know!), and while our coverage of Morocco has been comprehensive (mostly due to the lovely aggregators maintained by Moroccan bloggers), the Sahara does not have many bloggers, nevermind much organization between them. I, for one, would love to see more.

Global Voices DOES look at Spanish speaking Sahraoui bloggers also. Please look at the archives, you will see several articles by Renata Avila. In addition, you are welcome to share blogs with us if you know of any.

I wrote this article because the topic was pertinent and those were the only blog posts on the subject I could find (there were some in Spanish, but they just regurgitated the news). Please feel free to contribute additional information.

As you point out, the best way to achieve this is for Global Voices to actively seek out (more than likely Spanish speaking) Sahrawi to give their own views. People who have moved to Spain should be (a) better able to access the web, and (b) somewhat more removed from the day to day realities of the conflict, and (c) easier to contact than their fellows in the camps or the Moroccan-controlled areas of Western Sahara.

In terms of links – when I make a claim on the blog or in my comments it is either based on my own experience or I try and support it by links to appropriate sources (some of which I may be taking issue with e.g. UN, World Food Programme) – not Polisario sites. Sure there are links to sites sympathetic to Polisario on the side bars, but I don’t invoke these as proof of my arguments. You, however, simply point us to CORCAS and other Moroccan government sponsored sites, which lack credibility. I don’t point you to the Sahara Press Service or the Polisario government website. These are not linked to on the blog – there are 2 links to third party support groups sympathetic to SADR (which I’ve never invoked to support any of my writint) and one to a Sahrawi human right organisation in the occupied territories to which I’ve casually referred once or twice. The others are to blogs that talk about regional politics. Of course these are not sympathetic to Morocco, as few people are sympathetic to occupation unless they are linked to the interests of the occupier. You would prefer that I linked to sites that love your king – but this isn’t something I’m interested in doing. Maybe I’ll update and split into pro and anti sites.

I suggest you argue the points, rather than resorting to personal abuse and belligerent language telling me to shut up and close my blog, or saying that because there is a link to an organization you don’t like on my side bar nothing I say is credible.

How many times do I need to say it? If the Sahrawi in Tindouf want to be Moroccan let them demonstrate it through a referendum. But they don’t want to me Moroccan, and Morocco knows this (and so do you if you have any sense) – this is why Morocco refuses the referendum. You can tie yourself up in the knots of your convoluted propaganda arguments all you like, but this simple fact speaks for itself.

It’s remarkable that you focus on villifying the enemies of the Moroccan state and on insisting how wonderful and “great” Morocco is, using the language of extreme nationalism. This doesn’t sound like the kind of approach a genuine Sahrawi wanting an improvement in the situation of the Sahrawi in the Moroccan-controlled areas would take. It sounds much more like crude state propaganda pushed by a rather unsophisticated branch of government. Claiming that things are wonderful under the beneficence of your great king doesn’t lend your arguments and assertions an credibility.

Do you really think that I’m going to say “OK”, and stop writing about the situation as I see it because a Moroccan propagandist tells me to? I’m not sure what you’re trying to achieve there. What I write is based on my own observations and experience, not on some line determined by Polisario or Algeria. In contrast you’re pushing out all the usual Moroccan propaganda – but the first rule of propaganda is to invert the truth and accuse those who tell it of lying while feigning righteous indignation when your own lies are questioned. You’re doing your usual hypocritical trick of villifying others for doing precisely what you do all the time. But that’s your main tactic. You’re the trickster.

And you’re becoming very repetitive.

In terms of links – when I make a claim on the blog or in my comments it is either based on my own experience or I try and support it by links to reputable sources (e.g. UN, World Food Programme) – not Polisario sites. Sure there are links to sites sympathetic to Polisario on the side bars, but I don’t invoke these as proof of my arguments. You, however, simply point us to CORCAS and other Moroccan government sponsored sites, which lack credibility. I don’t point you to the Sahara Press Service or the Polisario government website.

You’re doing your usual hypocritical trick of villifying others for doing precisely what you do all the time. But that’s your main tactic. You’re the trickster.

And you’re becoming very repetitive.

How many times do I need to say it? If the Sahrawi in Tindouf want to be Moroccan let them demonstrate it through a referendum. But they don’t want to me Moroccan, and Morocco knows this (and so do you if you have any sense) – this is why Morocco refuses the referendum. You can tie yourself up in the knots of your convoluted propaganda arguments all you like, but this simple fact speaks for itself.

I suggest you argue the points, rather than resorting to personal abuse and belligerent language telling me to shut up and close my blog. Do you really thing that I’m going to say “OK”, and stop writing about the situation as I see it because a Moroccan propagandist tells me to? I’m not sure what you’re trying to achieve there. What I write is based on my own observations and experience, not on some line determined by Polisario or Algeria. You’re pushing out all the usual Moroccan propaganda – but the first rule of propaganda is to invert the truth and accuse those who tell it of lying while feigning righteous indignation as your own lies are questioned.

It’s remarkable that you focus on villifying the enemies of the Moroccan state and on insisting how wonderful and “great” Morocco is, using the language of extreme nationalism. This doesn’t sound like the kind of approach a genuine Sahrawi wanting an improvement in the situation of the Sahrawi in the Moroccan-controlled areas would take. It sounds much more like crude state propaganda pushed by a rather unsophisticated branch of government.

I apologize for the inconvenience! If you write slightly shorter comments and only post them once, it will be easier to avoid the problem.

Regards,
Solana (co-moderator)