This will be our first attempt to cover the Sahrawi blogsphere. I, alongside Jillian York and Renata Avila will try to shed light on what the Sahrawi bloggers are saying each week, in Arabic, English and Spanish. The topic of Western Sahara is one of a very complex background, and emotions tend to run high whenever it is under discussion. We will try to cover the Sahrawi side with as much objectivity as it is humanly possible.
This week's pick comes from the Western Sahara blog, writing about the new Sahrawi satellite TV station, R.A.S.D. TV (Democratic Sahrawi Arab Republic Television):
لا أخفيكم سرا كم انتظرت شخصيا كما الكثيرين بالمناطق المحتلة خروج هذا المولود الجديد الى النور بعد طول انتظار، نعم أخيرا لنا تلفزاتنا الفضائية
I have to tell you how much I've personally waited, like many others in the occupied areas, for this newborn baby to see light. And after a long wait, yes, we now have our own satellite television station.
The blogger says that the most important mission for the station should be to advance the Sahrawi case among other Arab countries:
لعل أهم دور لها آن تعرف بالقضية الوطنية لأخوتنا العرب في ظل صمت الجامعة العربية والذي نتمنى أن تتمكن القناة من كسر جدار الصمت هذا وان تجعل منها منتدى للنقاش البناء وللتفاعل مع الأشقاء العرب ، وهو اكبر تحدي للتلفزة نظرا لامتناع المسؤوليين عن الأقمار الصناعية العربية عن إعطاء تردد لها.
The most important role [for the station] is to shed light on our national cause to our Arab brothers. As the Arab League has remained silent over the issue, we hope the station will be able to break this silence barrier and to be a forum for constructive and interactive discussion with our Arab brothers, which will be the biggest challenge facing the channel, considering that the officials at the Arab TV Satellites have refused to host the channel on their frequencies.
He adds:
وأخيرا نتمنى أن تميط القناة اللثام عن واقع المناطق المحتلة من خلال بث أشرطة متلفزة تظهر فيها الصحراء الغربية من الداخل وان تؤرخ هذه الحقبة والمنعطف الهام في مسيرة قضيتنا الوطنية العادلة،
And finally, we hope the channel will also uncover the realities in the occupied areas by airing footage showing the Sahara from the inside, and to document this era and this important juncture in the history of our just national cause.
Send this by E-mail
Thanks Yazan, for getting this started!
To the readers - I just want to say that this effort to cover the Western Sahara’s blogosphere would not have happened if I hadn’t received comments over the past year from Moroccans, Sahrawis, and friends that it is an area in dire need of coverage. Undoubtedly, our coverage will not be perfect, so please feel free to contact us, alert us of blogs we should look at, and tell us what we could do better.
Best,
Jillian
All the best for you in this new challenge!
Thanks for the great team work!
I will translate this important and much interesting piece of news in Portuguese!
Thanks for this initiative!
For those that read Spanish, Sahablogs is an interesting portal that aggregates several blogs written in Spanish (and some in Catalan). Among others, I recommend this one by a Sahrawi singer.
Thanks Yazan, Renata and Jillian for your collective efforts! It’s so great to see this. I will translate this into Chinese.
Hmmm, good luck mate, but celebrating yet another bit of nationalist agitprop -whether Moroccan or Saharan seems empty. Rather reflecting on how the colonial imperial confettis take on lives of their, however economically or ecologically nonsensical, would be more interesting.
Sadly neither the Moroccans nor the Sahraoui independistes seem to be able to pull back from their 19th century style national narratives.
[...] comes in…an incredibly, impressively global exchange of ideas has just occurred. GV’s first Western Sahara post (thanks to Yazan) is live on the site, and I woke up to over 100 e-mails, sending the idea vibes [...]
Lounsbury,
If you have any recommendations of Sahrawi blogs to follow, we’d be happy to hear them. We can only reflect what the blogosphere is saying, whatever that might be.
Best,
Jillian
Congratulations to the three of you, I’m really excited about this effort…
[...] gute Artikel, die sich mit dem Thema befassten - einmal über den ersten eigenen Kabelsender in West-Sahara, und über die Ausstrahlung des englischen Al-Jazeera im amerikanischen [...]
beautiful efforts you guys, and looking forward to reading more of Sahrawi blogsphere.
Good first post. I’m really excited about watching this develop–I was sad that Western Sahara didn’t have its own section.
In response to Lounsbury, I understand his desire to see more reflected than just government propaganda from either side. Since there are so many good Sahrawi blogs written by regular people, though, I know this won’t be a problem in the future.
thank you so much for highlighting our cause in global voices i hope the initiative shall rise awareness throughout the globe about the sahrawi people suffering on both sides of the Moroccan berm,and be a source of reality away from propaganda.
Personally i would like to mention here people and blogers that i admire for making their best either via their blog or on the the ground for our homeland SAHARA let me present Mr Will Sommer’s
http://onehumportwo.blogspot.com/
and Dr. Nick Brooks’s
http://nickbrooks.wordpress.com/
Finally,thank you once again for that initiative.
[...] Actually, there are already some results, such as Yazan’s (and GV’s) first post on West Sahara! More collaborations will happen in the near [...]
I am really glad to see that some people here are very moderate and open to people more than to governments or leaders. The western sahraouis, the unionists, the separatists, the diaspora must move forward to end this 32 years old sterile conflict.
The TV of the polisario isn’t on the air. The announcement was made a few months ago but nothing is happenning on satellites.
To make a balance in terms of medias, TV Laayoune (the city and not the camp) has been on the air for a long time as well as Radio Laayoune and Radio Dakhla (the city not the camp). Those are the medias of unionist western sahraouis (= the ones supporting the autonomy initiative under the moroccan sovereignty)
Good job! Will be very interesting to see where this leads. Since Western Sahara blogging tends to be quadrilingual — in Arabic, Spanish, French and (very little) English — and also separated down political lines, this is really valuable if it can help get people from all sides together in the same forums.
Thanks alle, I appreciate your comments.
If you have suggestions for more blogs (particularly French ones, of which we have very few so far), please send me an e-mail!
Best,
Jillian
“Those are the medias of unionist western sahraouis (= the ones supporting the autonomy initiative under the moroccan sovereignty)”.
Sorry but the television station in El Ayoun as well as the radio stations in the same city and the one in Dakhla are run by the Moroccan government. They are state controlled and not media of any Saharawis, independent of whether they support Moroccan occupation and annexation of Western Sahara or not.
thank you Jillian York and others for the initiative and i think i got some useful french blogs on western sahara tobics i may suggest for example,
http://lesaharaoccidental.over-blog.com/
http://saharaoccidental.blogspot.com/
the SADR tv has stopped its broadcasting few days ago on Hispasat satellite we need to know the reasons.
In fact, TV/Radio Laayoune is broadcasting its programmes from Laayoune city as well as Dakhla Radio. As I said before these are the medias of unionist sahraouis. I think we need to take into account their point of view as they represent the majority. They are sahraouis as the ones in Tindouf and may be more.
It’s not a fair to defend one position, one TV, one kind of blog. In Western Sahara, there are unionists living inside the territory of Western Sahara. There are separatists living in Tindouf camps south Algeria claiming independence and there are also diaspora living in Spain and many other countries.
Mr Khaddad you made a cute distinction in the sahrawi body i hope you do not belong to internet cell of DST Moroccan inteligence because plenty of commenters on western sahara blogs and many pro-annexation Moroccan blogers were found DST personnels and on one hump or two Will Sommer provide us with more:
http://onehumportwo.blogspot.com/2008/06/moroccan-secret-service-agents-run.html
i suppose you are just hidding behind a sahrawi name,the very distinction that you try to make is no longer useful since western saharans people either in the occupied zone or in the refugee camps or elsewhere have expressed their hope to a free sahara,am living in the occupied city of Aaiun and i can prove you that what you describ as the unionists are just sahrawi business men such as Khallihlhoom the head of CORCAS and former head of the spanish party PNS and his brother and many others who defend their business and their only cause and principle is making money,you know that they did the same with the former Spanish occupier before you,those business men and women got no principles at all just stealing western sahara sand,phosphates,fish with the Moroccan occupation.
Supposing that -as you said-the majority of sahrawi are unionists,why your government refussed the organisation of a referendum of your unionists majority? so i hope you will suggest that to your head of DST,may be he could convince M6.
Dear Mohamed, why each time there is a comment against the official view of Polisario leaders and its supporters, you try to associate it to DST or whatever. What is this propaganda!!!
I think you are making a big mistake on trying to convey wrong information about what is happening in Western Sahara. You are not sahraoui, you aren’t living in Laayoune city and you are only here to misled the readers. There are many other unionist sahraouis who are proud to belong to the kingdom of Morocco. They are participating to the political, social and economical lives of Western Sahara. Polisario leaders are corrupt more than you can imagine.
STOP YOUR LIE PLEASE and let the readers know by themselves how things are really happenning in Western Sahara. The 2 medias mentionned above can help on that.
Dear Editor
I thank u for your effort to raise awareness for our cause your effort is very much appreciated…
Here I leave my own blog
http://www.freeewesternsahara.blogspot.com/
and another one which is wide readen
http://onehumportwo.blogspot.com/
Again thank u
Agaila
Agaila am happy to see you here in global voices because it seems that the Moroccan DST is everywhere on the net i hope we defend our cause and we raise the truth to the foreign commenters so as to convey the sahrawi people message of peace to the whole world because the DST is trying to blacken Polisario’s and the sahrawi people name just because they fight for their right in self determination.
we get used to your old tactics in conversation poor DST so you have to change it because i obviously asked you a clear question : you said that the majority and i said may be all sahrawi are as you describ them unionists so why don’t your dear and tender kingdom waste time why don’t you organise a fair referendum for sahrawi people,how much separatists sahrawi as you also describ them could exist 5 10 20 per cent,why don’t you let those unionists vote for the annexation of western sahara to the tender kingdom i hope in your next reply you shall be to the point.
One question @Mohamed,
who gona vote and for which territory, you say sahrawi but I know that sahrawi lives in moroccan territory and Mauritanian one and also algerian one, so did all this locating will be covered by the referendum or only the part managed by moroccan governement.
I’m just a youth guy how don’t care about this stuffs but I want say enought. The world run for consolidation and union and all you think about is seperate…
Where is democracy in a Stallinist system hold by polisario??? which peace are you talking about a Guerria Peace”??? How want peace fight for it by peaceful way, non-violet way… not by hunting with AK47 and RPG…
i’v not write for long time ago but…nevermind…
Just try to think about it…As for FARC case, no revolution may be managed by keeping peaple in a jungle or in desert by forcing them to stay… One question, why do people escape from tindouf camps… why there no real investigation about there living conditions…
Mohamed, mohamed and Agaila, you and your supporters were alone on the Internet since more than a decade to support separatism in Western Sahara. Now, that the Moroccans especially the sahraouis are aware of the impact of such a media, your sole aim is to discredit the arguments of unionist sahraouis on Internet by qualifying them as members of DST. You aren’t serious on saying that all unionist sahraouis are working for DST!!! What about you guys? Are you really what you try to be on Internet or are you working for the Algerian military secret services? I personally don’t care if you work for the Algerian services or not. My concern goes to my relatives living in Tindouf camps. They are waiting for the D day where they would recover their dignity in their motherland.
Agaila please enough victimization!! You live in better conditions than all the sahraouis living in the camps and from your side you are claiming something unrealistic. Why not asking for something more realistic? Why not participating all of us to the development of our region? Why dissention? Why? We all are sahraouis. I disagree with your distant activism because I feel more confident with the Moroccan government than the Algerian one.
I give my name and surname what about you Mohamed and mohamed?
Let me present your some websites made by unionist sahraouis :
http://www.corcas.com
http://www.sahara-online.net
http://www.sahara-culture.com
http://www.sahara-villes.com
http://www.sahara-developpement.com
http://www.sahara-social.com
These websites relate the truth about Western Sahara issue.
Same old story Mr Sam people captured against their will in Tindouf camps and the impossibility of organising a referendum for a magic multi-nationalities people am sick for hearing the same stupid propaganda from “a youth guy who don’t care about this stuffs but I want say enought” ,and finally your stricking comparision between the colombian FARC and the Front Polisario it seems like it belong to a Moroccan propagandist because there is no similarities i hope you read more history before making any judgement or draw any comparision between totally different movements.
And i give you the same question as your colleague with a sahrawi nickname i hope you give a satisfactory reply: why don’t you let those unionists vote for the annexation of western sahara to your tender kingdom?
I haven’t any recommendations as everything I see on the Sahara generally devolves into one or the other side’s empty agitprop, and the blogs don’t impress.
As for what I am referring to, see much of the exchange supra. Boring, same old back and forth.
Mohamed, mohamed and Agaila, you and your supporters were alone on the Internet since more than a decade to support separatism in Western Sahara. Now, that the Moroccans especially the sahraouis are aware of the impact of such a media, your sole aim is to discredit the arguments of unionist sahraouis on Internet by qualifying them as members of DST. You aren’t serious on saying that all unionist sahraouis are working for DST!!! What about you guys? Are you really what you try to be on Internet or are you working for the Algerian military secret services? I personally don’t care if you work for the Algerian services or not. My concern goes to my relatives living in Tindouf camps. They are waiting for the D day where they would recover their dignity in their motherland.
Agaila please enough victimization!! You live in better conditions than all the sahraouis living in the camps and from your side you are claiming something unrealistic. Why not asking for something more realistic? Why not participating all of us to the development of our region? Why dissention? Why? We all are sahraouis. I disagree with your (distant) activism because I feel more confident with the Moroccan government than the Algerian one.
I give my name and surname what about you Mohamed and mohamed?
[...] discovered they just began coverage of Western Sahara on July 5th. Their first highlight notes a brand-new TV station run by the SADR or SADR-sympathizers (I’m not entirely clear which). This seems to be the [...]
[...] broke the news with his post last week on a new Sahrawi television station. The post has garnered 30 comments in just 9 days, [...]
Dear Yazan, Jillian and others at GV,
First I’d like to applaud your focus on Western Sahara, and the work you’re doing translating material from the blogs. For those of us who are linguistically challenged with respect to relevant languages this is a great window on the parts of the blogosphere that are normally opaque.
You’ll have seem from the comments how the discussion tends to go on the Western Sahara blogs. The comments sections usually end up as propaganda tennis with a number of pro-Moroccan posters using the blogs as opportunities to promote the Moroccan autonomy plan and throw mud at the Polisario, and pro-independence commenters (and I include myself here) taking issue with this and spending time refuting the claims of the pro-Morocco camp. The result is two sides in an obscure conflict berating each other. For anyone unfamiliar with but interested in the Western Sahara conflict, this is neither satisfying nor illuminating. Outside observers are left wondering what to believe.
I wonder if the representation and digestion of the material from the blogs should be backed up by some sort of online resource that examines the claims of both sides as objectively as possible. Anyone wanting to see what’s being said in the blogs, but who also wants some sort of dispassionate assessment of the situation, might find this extremely useful. Those of us on the ground (either permanently as in the case of some of the commenters here or temporarily as in my case) have a lot to say about the situation, but could do with an honest broker to arbitrate and turn our often partisan musings into material that those outside of the conflict might see as more reliable.
Dear Nick,
I really appreciate your moderate view of the situation. From my unionism side, I would recommand you the websites made by the unionist sahraouis about what is really happening in Western Sahara : start with http://www.corcas.com from which you can get access to 5 other websites about the culture of Western Sahara and the socio-economic developement of the region. You have also some views of the main cities of Western Sahara on http://www.sahara-villes.com.
These websites are made by unionist sahraouis so they are pro-moroccan but from my side that is the only material I believe on (Sorry for that).
Otherwise, you have the last UN resolutions as well as the last statement of the security council position on the moroccan autonomy proposal. Most of the security council members (except South Africa of course) are supporting the moroccan autonomy proposal as a basis of negotiations. The independence is unrealistic for many reasons one of them is that the unionist sahraouis don’t believe on the old fashion polical views of Polisario leaders. Unionist sahraouis are willing to end the suffering of their relatives in Tindouf camps. Unfortunately that is not the case of the polisario leaders who want to perpetuate this conflict as long as possible to increase hatred and revenge desir among young populations. Again here are the unionist’ websites :
. http://www.corcas.com (politics and international support of the autonomy initiative)
. http://www.sahara-online.net (interesting history of the conflict narrated by unionist sahraouis)
. http://www.sahara-culture.com (the culture of Western Sahara)
. http://www.sahara-villes.com
. http://www.sahara-developpement.com (economic development of Western Sahara)
. http://www.sahara-social.com (social developement of Western Sahara)
Ahmed Salem
Dear Ahmed
Thanks for your response. I’m trying not to get involved in arguments about who are the good guys and who are the bad guys here, as it’s not helpful in this context. There is plenty of that all over the web.
I will that I’m wary of anyone who claims to know “what is really going on”, when that reflects and/or supports the propaganda line of an occupying power. Sure, some Sahrawi may support the occupation or, more likely, believe that the best way forward is to engage with it constructively in order to make progress in terms of social and economic conditions for the Sahrawi living in the occupied areas.
However, this is one view only, and it is a view not universally held within the Sahrawi community living in the Moroccan-controlled zone, and held by very few of the exiles/diaspora, as far as I can see from my contact with Saharawi living outside of Morocco’s control.
I would be very sceptical of taking anything on the CORCAS website, or on websites linked to from it, at face value, simply because the CORCAS website is full of pro-Morocco and anti-Polisario propaganda. This is a pity, as it undermines the credibilty of those Sahrawi who would like to engage constructively with Morocco in the context of its occupation of Western Saahara, by making them look like Moroccan government stooges. I’m not suggesting that all those who support Morocco’s autonomy plan are Moroccan government stooges, but it certainly looks this way from the material on the web. My advice to them would be to stop all the mud slinging at the Polisario, who aren’t perfect, but who aren’t the two-dimensional monsters portrayed by the pro-autonomy camp.
Anyway, all that aside, I welcome the opportunity to engage with someone from “the other side” who is prepared to engage with me, despite my support for idea of a referendum and, ultimately, independence for Western Sahara (reflecting the views of my Sahrawi friends and colleagues, and of those Sahrawi I have met).
I’d like to ask you a few questions, relating to the autonomy plan. I’m not trying to be provocative - I really would like to have some answers to these, as I have not managed to get any from the pro-autonomy camp so far.
1. Under the autonomy plan, what is proposed for the areas currently under the control of the Polisario? Are these to be left as a rump Sahrawi state governed by the Polisario? Are the they to be incorporated into the “Moroccan Sahara” by force? Or does the autonomy plan depend on the Polisario agreeing to relinquish control of these areas?
2. Under the plan, what is proposed for the refugees in Tindouf? Are they to be offered the right of return? If so, what plans are being made to accommodate them, in terms of investment in housing and other infrastructure?
3. How will the plan engage with the Polisario? Will it simply ignore them as long as they continue to insist that any referendum should include the option of full independence, alongside the options of full integration into Morocco and limited autonomy within a greater Morocco?
These are crucial questions, on which the success and legitimacy of the autonomy plan will depend, and I have not seen them addressed by anyone who supports the autonomy plan. This has made me wonder whether the plan is really a serious initiative, or simply a PR exercise. Unless these questions are addressed properly, the plan will simply make the partition of Western Sahara official, which will leave Morocco with a potentially hostile Sahrawi state on its doorstep, which I assume it does not see as desirable.
Anyway, I await your comments with interest.
Regards
Nick
First,i would like to welcome Dr.Nick Brooks he is so interested in the cause of western sahara and he got many things to teach for propagandists such as Ahmed Salem,really am happy to see you here.i want just to ask Mr Ahmed Salem why don’t you answer my pevious question which i give you twice but no reply you said that the majority and i said may be all sahrawis are as you describ them unionists so why don’t your dear and tender kingdom organise a fair referendum for sahrawi people,how much separatists sahrawi as you also describ them could exist 5,10,20 per cent,why don’t you let those unionists vote for the annexation of western sahara to the tender kingdom? what sahrawi unionists’s websites are you reffering to, CORCAS is it really made by sahrawi “unionists”?i doubt so,the Moroccan MAP the biggest Moroccan agency of lyies is the one behind the projects of the CORCAS’s websites and Aaiun TV station,so what unionists are talking about Khalihlhoum the head of CORCAS,i grew up here in Aaiun and i never heard of those unionists that you mention on every phrase you type except businessmen and women who are trying to earn as much money as they could with whatever occupation ,for them they hope that the conflict of western sahara will never be solved as stated one of them,the majority of sahrawi people here in Aaiun and all western sahara are calling for independance and the Moroccan security forces are punishing them and puting them in jails just because they call for their right in self-determination,the majority of sahrawi families or individuals here in Aaiun have been tortured by the Moroccan authorities and am wondering which sahara are you living in and which sahrawi people are you belonging to?
Dear Nick, (part 1)
Many thanks again for your interest on Western Sahara issue.
You are right when you say that there are many urls on Internet treating the issue. I believe most of them support the pro-polisario position of the conflict. Well, in Morocco we made an historical mistake in calling Western Sahara ‘Moroccan Sahara’. This mistake didn’t help in the referencing process of search engines like Google & co. In such case and during a long time, the Moroccan government was seen as colonialist, imperialist…when propaganda is associated to this fact the issue becomes something horrible to individuals (researchers, students, politics…). People on Internet got a unique view of the situation. People on Internet thought that the Polisario leaders are the unique representative of sahraouis in Western Sahara. With the establishment of CORCAS in 2006, the world discovered finally that there are many other sahraouis who are unionists and proud of it. The chairman and the secretary general of CORCAS are the spokesman of the Moroccan delegation in Manhasset talks.
You don’t believe the CORCAS. I personally believe on the CORCAS efforts to develop the region more than the polisario leaders. The CORCAS is pushing the limits of the Moroccan government. Many sessions were held with many ministers to establish court term development programmes (habitation, health, agriculture and fishing…). The king is personally making the follow-up of these projects. We, unionists, are happy with the new strategy of the king to end this absurd cold war conflict. That was not the case of the former king.
(Part 2)
I disagree with you about the term “occupying power”, you could say it if all the sahraouis were fighting for independence. That is not the case. The majority of sahraouis are unionists. There are some separatists but they are very few.
As you probably don’t know the message of CORCAS as all the unionists to Polisario leaders is clear. Let’s govern all together under the Moroccan sovereignty. The CORCAS is always asking the Polisario leaders to be realistic and visionary. The CORCAS has never attacked the Polisario leaders in his websites. CORCAS is just relating what is really happening in Western Sahara. There is no propaganda on relating the truth.
You met probably some sahraouis supporting separatism in Western Sahara but did you meet others who were imprisoned in the camps of Tindouf because of their opposition to the actual leaders? Did you meet sahraouis representing the region in the Moroccan parliament, sahraouis making businesses and developing the region, NGOs participating to the social life of Western Sahara? Did you meet sahraouis fighting for more democracy and freedom without claiming independence? I am sure no. In such case, you can’t have a balanced view of the situation.
Dear Ahmed Salem
Well, I think we will have to agree to disagree about the nature of CORCAS, and on the percentage of Sahrawi living in the Moroccan-controlled areas who support union with Morocco. Personally I don’t know - I have to rely on news reports of unrest and brutality, reports from groups such as Amnesty and Human Rights Watch, and the views of bloggers and commenters of all persuasions, so have to maintain a healthy scepticism as long as I’m viewing this from afar.
As for the CORCAS website, the article titled “Victimes of the Polisario call the international community to stop the agony of the sequestered” is pure, straight-down-the-line Moroccan government propaganda, pushing the line that the inhabitants of the camps around Tindouf are held against their will, and that children are forcibly deported to Cuba, both of which claims are nonsense.
The inhabitants of the camps are there as displaced persons as a result of the conflict with Morocco, and children are sent to Cuba for educational exchanges. They are also sent to Spain and other countries such as Australia, the US, Canada and the UK, but these don’t make for as dramatic propaganda as the Cuban bogeyman. This is simply spin aimed at the US public, which seeks to discredit the Polisario through association with the widely hated (in the US) Cuban regime. UNHCR has provided assistance to Sahrawi students in Cuba, assisting graduating students to return to Tindouf, and providing small stipends for items such as clothing and school supplies. In response to Moroccan claims of abuses UNHCR investigated the situation of Sahrawi children in Cuba and found that it was compatible with the 1989 Convention on the Rights of the Child. See p.48 of this UNHCR report: http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/protect/opendoc.pdf?tbl=PROTECTION&id=408e04074
As for forcible imprisonment in the camps, I have seen no evidence of this during my six visits to the camps. I have met Sahrawi in the Polisario-controlled areas (which they refer to as the “Free Zone”) of Western Sahara who move freely between the camps and the Free Zone, for example when rains mean that there is pasture for their animals. I have also met a number of Sahrawi here in the UK who are based in camps, who are clearly not prisoners there. Not all of them are members of the Polisario government. Polisario may well be perfect, but the idea that it holds hostage tens of thousands of “Moroccan” Sahrawi who would rather live under Moroccan rule is fantasy.
The above addresses two claims by an article given prominence on the CORCAS website, which originated with Moroccan state media.
All the Sahrawi I have met in the camps, in the unoccupied areas of Western Sahara, and outside the region, support the idea of independence. Those who have dissented from the Polisario’s line do so on the grounds that the Polisario is not being tough enough in its negotiations (such as they are) with Morocco). I have met a number of Sahrawi who see the rekindling of armed conflict as the only way of making progress on self-determination. That’s their view - I’m merely reporting it. As for democracy, well the Polisario could certainly do much better (as could all the countries in the region - Morocco is ruled by a monarch, let’s remember). There are dissenting voices in the exiled Sahrawi community, and the Polisario is itself composed of factions with divergent views (e.g. Khat al-Shahid).
I notice that you are silent on my questions about the fate of the Polisario-controlled areas and the refugees under the autonomy plan. But I would still very much appreciate an answer, as this continues to exercise my mind in the context of the viability and seriousness of the plan.
Regards
Nick
Alle, in the comments over at ateedub, alerted us to a pro-autonomy Sahrawi blogger, who can be found here:
http://chagafaziza.blogspot.com/
Although she supports the idea of autonomy, she seems to have a pretty dim view of CORCAS. But read her for yourselves.
(Part 3)
Hi Nick and many thanks for the above,
I have 3 more parts but I have some problems to post them. I am trying since yesterday. I do answer to your questions. Let me continue the posts.
Regarding your questions, here are my answers:
1. First, the area dishonestly called ‘liberated zones’ by Polisario is a buffer zone agreed between the two parties on the ceasefire in 1991. When the Polisario leaders make festivities in this area, they go against what is agreed on the ceasefire document. The MINURSO is always asked by Morocco to re-establish its authority in the region. The Berm was held to protect the unionist sahraouis from the attacks of polisario leaders. FYI, during the war (1976 to 1991), the polisario militaries had the most sophisticated weapons of that time. They were made by the Soviet Union and sponsored by Lybia then by Algeria (the Soviet Union block in North Africa). King Hassan II made the right choice to support the American block. I am saying all the time that there was the wall of Berlin in Europe and the wall of Western Sahara in North Africa.
Western Sahara is not separated in two parts. It might be separated in Polisario leaders’ minds. For the UN, Western Sahara is the whole region. As the negotiations are made under the UN auspices, the MINURSO will first stop its activities after getting rid of mines along the Berm. The Berm will surely disappear because there would be no war threat anymore. So Western Sahara will be considered as a whole.
As you can imagine, this buffer zone is considered a Moroccan region in Morocco and you can get all information (demography…) you need on http://www.hcp.ma.
Dear Nick,
I have 3 more posts but I have some problems to post them. I am trying since yesterday. Otherwise, is there any possibility to make a post on your blog?
Thanks
Ahmed Salem
(Post 3)
Regarding your questions, here are my answers:
1. First, the area dishonestly called ‘liberated zones’ by Polisario is a buffer zone agreed between the two parties on the ceasefire in 1991. When the Polisario leaders make festivities in this area, they go against what is agreed on the ceasefire document. The MINURSO is always asked by Morocco to re-establish its authority in the region. The Berm was held to protect the unionist sahraouis from the attacks of polisario leaders. FYI, during the war (1976 to 1991), the polisario militaries had the most sophisticated weapons of that time. They were made by the Soviet Union and sponsored by Lybia then by Algeria (the Soviet Union block in North Africa). King Hassan II made the right choice to support the American block. I am saying all the time that there was the wall of Berlin in Europe and the wall of Western Sahara in North Africa.
Western Sahara is not separated in two parts. It might be separated in Polisario leaders’ minds. For the UN, Western Sahara is the whole region. As the negotiations are made under the UN auspices, the MINURSO will first stop its activities after getting rid of mines along the Berm. The Berm will surely disappear because there would be no war threat anymore. So Western Sahara will be considered as a whole.
(Part 3)
Regarding your questions, here are my answers:
1. First, the area dishonestly called ‘liberated zones’ by Polisario is a buffer zone agreed between the two parties on the ceasefire in 1991. When the Polisario leaders make festivities in this area, they go against what is agreed on the ceasefire document. The MINURSO is always asked by Morocco to re-establish its authority in the region. The Berm was held to protect the unionist sahraouis from the attacks of polisario leaders. FYI, during the war (1976 to 1991), the polisario militaries had the most sophisticated weapons of that time. They were made by the Soviet Union and sponsored by Lybia then by Algeria (the Soviet Union block in North Africa). King Hassan II made the right choice to support the American block. I am saying all the time that there was the wall of Berlin in Europe and the wall of Western Sahara in North Africa.
Western Sahara is not separated in two parts. It might be separated in Polisario leaders’ minds. For the UN, Western Sahara is the whole region. As the negotiations are made under the UN auspices, the MINURSO will first stop its activities after getting rid of mines along the Berm. The Berm will surely disappear because there would be no war threat anymore. So Western Sahara will be considered as a whole. (TBC)
Nick, I am sorry but my posts seem to be blocked. I reduced the size of text but no way !! I will retry again. I wish my posts are not censored by moderator.
Thanks
Ahmed Salem
(Part 4)
2. FYI, Morocco has been welcoming the return of more than 7000 sahraouis living in the camps since 1976. Many leaders of the polisario returned back to Morocco. Many of them have high positions in the Moroccan parliament, government and departments. So, the right has been opened since the beginning. The role of CORCAS is to prepare the return of sahraouis in Tindouf camps. That’s why the CORCAS is meeting all ministers to prepare the return of sahraouis in Tindouf camps. Many things were done in Western Sahara and many others are expected for the 4 coming years. Look at http://www.sahara-developpement.com
3. The UN is clear in its resolutions. The solution must be political and acceptable by the two parties. Morocco neither Polisario will be forced. All is about negotiations and of course political pressure (to Algeria especially). Morocco is renouncing to the idea of full integration by proposing the autonomy initiative. Polisario leaders must renounce to independence and integrate the development process of Western Sahara in the autonomy context. The autonomy initiative is serious and credible as a basis to the negotiations. All western countries welcomed the Moroccan proposal. Thanks to the Moroccan proposal, the conflict is moving forward. Please look at the support of western countries on http://www.corcas.com
I wish all sahraouis, the unionists, the separatists and Diaspora will live all together in their motherland, Western Sahara. Morocco is preparing the return of all sahraouis living in the camps. First, the Polisario leaders must let the ones in the camps who are willing to return to Western Sahara. Then the negotiations must continue to convince the polisario leaders as well as the recalcitrants about the seriousness of the Moroccan proposal.
Regards
Ahmed Salem
PS: don’t be so doubter about the CORCAS. They are maybe more sahraouis than the leader of Polisario, Mohamed Abdelaziz, a Moroccan native (not far from Marrakech).
Dear Nick,
I think that the reports of international organizations depend on ONE MAN or ONE LADY, the one working in the region. So it depends first on the relationship of this man or this lady with the local administration. Same as for blogging. I read a few months ago an article of a man who worked in Morocco for the account of the UN. Then he went to Algeria working for another organisation. He was so obsessed by separatism in Western Sahara, (honestly or dishonestly I really don’t mind) but the thing I discovered from a foreign guy who met him when he was in Morocco that he has a love story with a Moroccan lady and he was in love with her and she cheated and from that time he decided to move from Morocco and I guess from that time the detestation of Morocco started. I know one or two cases like that where the personal view took the power to the professional one. I am not attacking the work of these organization, I am just saying if the MAN or the LADY is wrong, the global view would be wrong.
I don’t know why but when articles are signed MAP, people talk about propaganda. What about the work of SPS? When they relate the Sidi Ifni strikes as the continuation of the Intifada while Sidi Ifni isn’t part of the disputed region, when they continue exaggerating the police forces brutalities against separatists, when, when and when. Do you think they say right!!! FYI, Sidi Ifni people are more Moroccans than all the Moroccans. They were on strike with Moroccan flags and the picture of the king.
Nick, do you have an idea about the inhabitants’ figures of Western Sahara? They are about 450.000 and may be more. 70% may be more are from the region i.e. 315.000 inhabitants are originally sahraouis. Do you know how many were imprisoned for separatism (less than 20). They were released thanks to the king and the efforts of CORCAS. Do you have an idea about the origin of these people who become in few days THE heroes of separatism? Most of them are what polisario leaders call settlers but as it arranged their political business they became heroes of Intifada (what a shame to compare Laayoune troubles in 2005 to the Palestinian Intifada). Do you know how the riots started in 2005 in Laayoune city? It started during the transportation of one prisoner from a prison to another one. This prisoner has nothing to do with human rights activism for independence. He was in jail because he was against the law to respect people and goods. Our police forces were stupid enough to be trapped in a BIG PROPAGANDA orchestrated by local separatists and relayed by honest or dishonest people everywhere in the world. The propaganda of 2005 strikes is still running. Each time there is ONE separatist who is bitted by police forces, SPS talks about the intifada of the sahraoui people!!!! Is that about information!?
Regarding the visits I am always saying when possible that the visits are controlled. I wonder if you could move in the camps without any polisario official in your back. Everything is under control: the visit of the museum, of the school…the VICTIMIZATION, the VICTIMIZATION everywhere. You have certainly met the most Moroccan of the polisario leaders (Mohamed Abdelaziz). Well I believe after the visit you are on the SPELL of VICTIMIZATION. So you are definitely revolted against this country called Morocco, a monarchy so dictatorship, governed by a king in the 21th…You are convinced that sahraouis are persecuted every day in Western Sahara that’s why they escape to Tindouf camps and so on BLA BLA…this bla bla has worked for a long time. Polisario succeeded on getting many support. It start at the university with a conference (I should say a monologue because there is no debate) then the recruitment of young people. The contact is maintained on Internet (emails, infos from SPS,…). The network has grown up since more than a decade on Internet.
Regarding the sahraouis living in the camps, they are not allowed to move freely, to talk freely, to marry freely, to study freely, to work freely…every polisarian is working for the military services. Nobody can criticise the polisario leaders. The ones who tried were in jail and persecuted. Have you ever seen these videos? The Polisario camps: Refugees or Hostages?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pM_XH2Npms&feature=related (part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlDHcECg5QY&feature=related (part 2)
Read what Amnesty International said about sahraoui people living in the camps of shame in Tindouf south Algeria.
In fact, sahraouis in Tindouf camps are encircled but from time to time some of them escape the camps to return back to Morocco through Mauritania. They are encircled because if sahraouis decided to return to Morocco, and they know perfectly that Morocco welcomes every sahraoui willing the return, there will be no reason to struggle. The camps would be empty. Please Nick, let’s think about it: could you imagine one second a normal human been accepting to live in such hard conditions without revolting, without expressing any opposite view of the situation? After 32 years of hard life conditions, I think people are expecting more dignity and more respect from their leaders.
I remember an interview of M. Beida, the chief of the parliament of SADR, he was asked by Al Jazeera about the reconciliation: if the reconciliation is concrete, do you plan to return to Morocco to join your family? The answer was clear: I will never return to Morocco. THAT MEANS THE LEADERS OF POLISARIO ARE STILL THINKING OF THEMSELVES, OF THEIR OLD (INTELLECTUAL) FIGHT AGAINST THE MOROCCAN REGIME. They have no respect of improving the daily life of the sahraouis. I was a little bit choked by the answer of M. Beida and I had a thought about my relatives living in the camps who are far from deciding on their future.
You met sahraoui people in Tindouf camps but were you allowed to visit ordinary people who have no relationship with polisario leaders of officials? I am sure no.
Besides, UN resolutions have never mentioned the word decolonization. They talked about self-determination. The autonomy proposal is a way to achieve self-determination. Self-determination doesn’t mean independence. There are many places where the UN talked about self-determination without talking about independence.
Dear Nick, we must react and now for reconciliation and that is the work of unionist sahraouis and CORCAS. There is no other solution. The support of the international community is important to achieve the reconciliation between the unionist and separatist sahraouis to end this absurd cold war
Thanks
Ahmed Salem
Dear Ahmed Salem
You do a very good job at dressing up the Moroccan occupation of Western Sahara in the clothes of reason and reconciliation, but I am still unconvinced. The UN position remains one that supports self determination. The argument has now moved on to whether the denial of a referendum on independence coupled with a promise of limited autonomy within a greater Morocco constitutes self determination or not. The pro-autonomy camp argues yes, the pro-independence camp argues no. The member states with the loudest voices in the UN have simply become fed up with the situation and want to see it resolved one way or another, and do not much care about the morality of the issue. I don’t know about you, but I’m not going to take lessons on morality from the permanent members of the security council, which are the five largest exporters of arms in the world.,
As far as I’m concerned the Moroccan plan does not offer self-determination, unless you go through some quite rigorous intellectual gymnastics. The limits of autonomy (which fall far short of any suggestion of full independence) are imposed by Morocco, and do not originate from the bottom up, i.e. from the Sahrawi, even though some Sahrawi are prepared to accept these limits. The Sahrawi are therefore not free to choose independence. They are therefore not free to fully determine their future as a people, or the future of Western Sahara as a territory or country. To me this does not constitute self-determination.
I have to agree with Mohamed’s argument that if union with Morocco is so popular with the Sahrawi, why does Morocco not allow a referendum on full independence? If union/autonomy is so popular, and is the preferred option, surely the vote would be in Morocco’s favour. People such as yourself would then have a full and convincing answer for people such as me who are not convinced by what we view as Moroccan propaganda. Holding the referendum and seeing most Sahrawi vote to live under Moroccan sovereignty with some limited self-determination would be the best way to demonstrate the willingness of the Sahrawi to be Moroccan.
As for the efforts to prepare for the return of refugees (how may are CORCAS and Morocco expecting?), on the site you directed me too there is no category labelled “refugees”, “housing” or “settlements”, and a search using the key word “refugees” returned no results. This site appears to be advertising industrial development rather than any plan to accommodate up to 160,000 returning refugees (I am sure you will dispute this figure).
To say that Western Sahara is not separated into two parts except in the Polisario leaders’ minds, and to refer to the Polisario-controlled areas as a buffer zone agreed by the two parties, is hogwash, and just the usual propaganda. The berm physically separates Western Sahara into a Moroccan-controlled zone and a Polisario-controlled zone. I know this very well because I run a research project (looking at archaeology and past environmental change) in the Polisario-controlled areas, and this is undertaken with the logistical support of the Polisario. I have travelled widely in these areas, to Tifariti, Mijek, Zug, Lajuad, and many other locations all within the Polisario-controlled areas. Polisario is the authority in these areas just as much as Morocco is the authority in the areas it controls.
I have also had dealings with MINURSO, who actively monitor the ceasefire in this area. It is not a question of them establishing their authority - they have very little “authority” in the way you mean it. as they are mandated to monitor the ceasefire and organise the referendum, not to control either the Moroccan or Polisario-controlled areas.
The buffer strip in which Moroccan and Polisario armed forces are not permitted, according to the ceasefire agreement, extends for 5km either side of the berm. Beyond this there are “restricted areas” in which no weapons are to be fired and no military training etc should take place, These extend 30 km from the berm. The remainder of Western Sahara, in both the Polisario and Moroccan-controlled areas, consists of what are know as “areas with limited restrictions”, in which “All normal military activities can be carried out with the exception of the reinforcement of existing minefields, the laying of mines, the concentration of forces, the construction of new headquarters, barracks and ammunition storage facilities.” All this information, and the quotes, are from the MINURSO website at: http://www.minurso.unlb.org/monitoring.html.
I’m afraid you’re simply wrong about the partition of Western Sahara, and about the nature of the Polisario-controlled areas. As far as the ceasefire is concerned, they have every right to hold festivities there and undertake military activities provided these do not constitute escalation, as does Morocco in the areas it occupied. This is a common rhetorical tactic by Moroccan propagandists - to pretend that there is no partition and to deliberately confuse the Polisario-controlled areas that constitute a large area of Western Sahara with the 5km buffer strip on the Polisario side of the berm. It is, I’m afraid, somewhat disingenuous.
Regards
Nick
Dear Ahmed Salem
You say” Forgive me for not taking your figures and assertions, or Please Nick, let’s think about it: could you imagine one second a normal human been accepting to live in such hard conditions without revolting, without expressing any opposite view of the situation? After 32 years of hard life conditions, I think people are expecting more dignity and more respect from their leaders.”
After 32 years of this a lot of Sahrawi a gung-ho for restarting the conflict. While there is undoubtedly dissatisfaction with the Polisario in the camps, the people I have met put the blame for their situation squarely on Morocco, which invaded their territory and precipitated the conflict. This is a hard fact, however you dress it up, and whatever you think about Morocco’s “rights” to Western Sahara. And while conditions in the camps are not brilliant, and there are problems with food from time to time, I’ve seen worse conditions in towns and villages in other parts of Africa. This demonisation of the Polisario is fantasy. They’re not perfect but they’re not monsters. They may not be without corruption, but is any administration in the region? The fact that there hasn’t been a revolt is something that suprises me, given people’s frustration in the camps with the failure to achieve independence, which is what they seem to want. As I’ve argued earlier, your assertions that the Polisario are keeping refugees hostage, and that the inhabitants of the camps are not free to leave, is simply a convenient fiction.
You invoke Amnesty to back up your claims of Polisario monstrosity, but this is a dangerous tactic given Amnesty’s regular criticism of Morocco. All Amnesty has to say about the Polisario on its Morocco/Western Sahara page is that a UNHCR report recommended closer monitoring of human rights in the camps (surely a good idea) and that the Polisario has not taken action against those responsible for past human rights abuses, for which they should indeed be criticised (http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/middle-east-and-north-africa/north-africa/moroccowestern-sahara). There is no mention of hostage taking or the other abuses of which they are regularly accused by Moroccan propagandists. Amnesty has plenty to say about Morocco, as do other organisations such as Human Rights Watch (http://www.hrw.org/).But then, although you invoke Amnesty, you also say that the reports of international organisations should not be taken seriously as they are the work on a single man or woman.
Well, that’s it from me for now. Unfortunately no-one is paying me to write this stuff and I have a livelihood to earn.
Regards
Nick
@Ahmed salem:
eventhough you write a play with 500 parts you will never ever convince us since you are trying to falsify the truth which every one knows about,neither Nick nor anybody will be fooled with your lies.i advice you to write a book entitled “1001 Moroccan lies about western sahara” and you divided it into 1001 parts your above parts will be included.
i just want to ask you how much time do you spend in typing your parts? ohhhhhhhhh i forget that it is your duty…it seems like you work for extra hours.
try a real dialogue based on facts it will function better your or your authorities old way is just a waste of time.
Mohamed or mohamed, I am not trying to convince you simply because it’s not my duty (as you said). I am here to debate with Nick not with you because he was asking to debate with someone from the other party (the unionists). As an intellectual man, I respect his viewpoint and I tried to relate some ignored facts.
When you talk about lies I think the lies of the Polisario orchestred by Algeria about the Western Sahara issue is one of the BIG HISTORICAL lie of the humanity I have known. Let me ask you some questions to check your (dis)honesty :
1. By whom the polisario was created?
2. Were they studying in Rabat or not?
3. Were they initially moroccans or not?
4. Was Mohamed Abdelaziz born closed to Marrakech or not?
5. Is the father of Mohamed Abdelaziz seating as a member in CORCAS or not?
6. Is he asking his son to return to Morocco or not?
7. Were the Polisario joined by other moroccan opposants to the moroccan regime or not?
8. Where they planning to plot the monarchy in the 70′ or not?
9. Where they planning to instaure a communist regime in the whole country with the help of the Soviet Union or not?
10. Where they supported by Cuba, Algeria and Lybia or not?
11. How do sahraouis were conducted to Tindouf camps?
12. Were they conducted by the algerians/spanish and Polisario in military trucks or where they conducted by themselves by foot?
13. Were they abused by polisario/algerians about a potential genocide after the green march or not?
14. Were the sahraouis afraid after this manipulation or not?
15. Is that explaining the separation of families or not?
16. Are the Polisario leaders corrupt or not?
17. Are they diverting aids or not?
18. Are they manipulating people in the camps or not?
19. Are the families of Polisario leaders really living in the camps or abroad?
20. Are they punishing every opposant or not?
21. How are the camps managed? is it by democracy or by “militarycracy”?
22. Why sahraouis in Tindouf camps are escaping the camps to return to Morocco if the life in the camps is a paradise?
23. Why more than 7000 sahraouis returned back to Morocco?
24. Why there were no sahraouis who escaped to Tindouf camps from Western Sahara?
25. WHY ARE YOU SUPPORTING A BIG HITORICAL LIE, DARKNESS AND STUBBORNNESS of the algerian regime?
Dear Ahmed Salem
To be fair, it is people such as Mohamed that you should be debating with - I am simply an interested outsider whereas Mohamed has a much more direct and personal stake in this conflict, as a Sahrawi living in the Moroccan-controlled zone. Surely you should be courting him rather than me, instead of engaging in debate with me and brow-beating him with assertions and belligerent language. It seems strange that you treat a foreigner with more respect than you do a Sahrawi.
I think your list of questions is a high-risk tactic. Accusations of corruption, the diversion of aid, human rights abuses, lack of democracy and political manipulation ring a little hollow coming from a supporter of the Moroccan government, which is hardly above criticism in these areas. This is mud-slinging of the least constructive kind, and looks a bit hypocritical.
In any case, the integrity of the Polisario is not the issue. The issue is the right to self-determination without preconditions (such as the preclusion of independence) of the Sahrawi people. However bad the Polisario may or may not be has no bearing on the fact that the Sahrawi have been denied this right. Those arguing for independence are supporting the cause of independence, not simply supporting the political organisation that is the Polisario. Trying to discredit a cause by throwing mud at an organisation that advocates that cause is dishonest.
Your questions suggest an expectation of simple answers. I don’t believe