WengAn, Guizhou, middle school students set police cars and government buildings on fire after their school girl being raped and murdered. Ten of thousands of people supported these teenagers by showing up on the scene or participating in the protest on June 28. The riots shocked Chinese leaders.

Li Shufen, girl aged 15, Junior 2 top student, Weng’an County No.3 Middle School was raped and murdered on June 21. On the evening of June 21, 2008, Wang Jiaojiao, together with two of her cousins, took Li shufen outside. Li was raped and murdered with her body tossed into the West Gate River. At about 11 pm., Li’s elder brother called the police. Police came to the site but refused to recover the body for the reason of no tools at hand. Hearing it, Li’s uncle, a teacher at Yuhua middle school came up and pulled out the body with tools borrowed from the landlord. Witness said tissue papers and condoms were found and blood everywhere. The murderers were caught but released a day later because they are children of the local officials.

Li’s uncle was taken away by the police and forced to admit that the body was recovered by the fire fighters or the police. Yet he refused. The police beat him fiecely and kicked him out of the office. Not far from the police office, Liu’s uncle was savagely attacked by gangsters (said to be hired by the police)with steel pipe and steel ball. He died at 3 am. on June 29 in hospital . Li’s aunt went to the police’s to argue but was seriously wounded by the police and detained since..

Students at the school where Liu’s uncle teach were enraged by the brutality of the police. They gethered and protested in front of the government building. However, the government made no reply, instead, ordered the police to attack the students. Four to five students were so badly injured that they suffered cerebral concussion and broken limbs. The public security authorities threatened that whoever dare to complain would be arrested, quoted as “even the Chinese president Hu Jintao wouldn’t help here.” The cover-up by the police and their arrogant further exasperated the students. They burnt down the ground floor of the public security bureau and destroyed police cars which gained overwhelming support from crowds in the county. Instantly thousands of people gathered in front of the government building.Tension increased, the students torched the government building during the night. Demonstrators confronted the government until 5 a.m on June 29. After the majority of the crowd dispersed, police caught dozens of students, forced them to kneel down and violently beat them up,causing some deaths and bodies being removed

On the morning, June 29, police blocked all access to government buildings. A student was knocked down and killed.

From June 21 until June 29, the family of Li Shufen kept her body in a steel coffin filled with ice. Her father went to the provincial government to report the case,never returned and remain missing.Mother was so shocked by losing the only child she become mentally and emotionary unstable. The authorities tried to force the victim’s family to bury the body,without any success,so they tried to steal it ,but failed again because common citizens are guarding it. Outraged students and villagers gathered thousands of signatures and donated about 80,000 Chinese Yuan which was robbed and then burnt by the police. Investigators from the state government were obstructed on the way and local journalists attempting to report the incident were beaten up. Under public pressure, legal medical experts were finally allowed to carry out an autopsy. The victim was found drugged before she died,and found no water neither in the lung or stomach. On June 28, the whole county was cut off and lost contact with the outside world. It was said some provincial-level personnel got the news soon but was prevented to investigate the case because one deputy chief of the provincial department of public security was an uncle to the murderer.

With the situation deteriorating, the authorities gathered riot police and paramilitary police from nearby counties and cities (including a division troop from Kunming Military Area ) to crackdown the demonstrators,which are mainly 13 to 15 high school students.Watching all those video available on youtube,this fact is very apparent.. Provincial officials came to look into it and Xinhua News Agency began to cover it.Now ,why for so many days,between 21-June,and 27-June,the whole of Chinese media,TV,radio,newspapers,remained silent? Nevertheless, the ongoing chaos and darkness continues. On the morning, June 29, the government declared it to be an illegitimate riot as “Attacking, Crushing, Looting & Burning” .And on 1-July,a press conference given by the government stated that Li Shufen commited suicide.And no facts,no evidence of suicide was presented.

One question the government,cannot,and will not answer is”Yes,it is a riot by the students,but why it was not prevented from happening in the first place?”
Question no 2:What had the police done wrong,so much so that 13 to 15 years old kids would go to burn down police buildings,and with 100,000 strong ordinary citizens stand behind them,risking their own life,knowing in CHINA,if anyone dare to attack polce,the consequence is either death or life imprisonment.
CNN,BBC,where are you when CHINA needed you most?
Readers,is it look like a simple riot,or a revolution in the making?

This has reference to your post # 126.

CNN, BBC and other western medias how ever biased they are they dissect the even highest officials of the land including presidents and congressmen for the slightest of infringement. See how Nixon, Clinton were hounded by media them even while they were in the office. Nixon lost is office and Clinton was humiliated.

While on the other hand Chinese media like Xinhue and peoples daily shamelessly heap praise to Chinese leaders even though their hands are drenched with blood of genocide.

Its therefore utterly moron to compare the Western and state controlled Chinese media.

Nepalese Police at beat them at the instigation of Chinese Embassy in Nepal. Chinese won’t allow outside media to see the Chinese torture and killing inside Tibet.

Just see the photos of the Tibetans murdered by Chinese PAP, PSB and PLA.

http://stoptibetcrisis.net/photos4.html

So don’t compare the Western free media with state controlled Xinhue or people daily. Its would sound so utterly moron to do so if one has little common sense to compare the two.

yes the east does look down on the west, but they take the time to learn English (the younger wealthier generation anyway) and learn the culture of the west. Does the west do the same? maybe recently keep up the good work
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not only younger wealthier generations…as well as old, regardless of being wealthy or not. But as far as i know, more and more western people are able to know Chinese…good thing anyway.

Now I will spend all the money in one nation only. . . . .

Are you so sure about the west is NOT behind the criticism? Where is the proof?
I guess you are the only one “almost no well-informed and intelligent person will seriously consider that idea).” ?

The first writer is especially China-friendly:
http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/06/getting_this_off_my_chest_abou.php#more

The second writer sometimes makes Chinese readers mad:
http://time-blog.com/china_blog/2008/06/another_arrest_of_a_politcal_a.html

“I think the exchanges between you, knight, and Chan highlight certain difficulties that in some degree are attributable to the particular style of interaction rather than cultural factors.”
I think it’s important to practice trying to discuss with people who think and act very differently, which is why I’ve responded to Knights a few times.

“I find that your claims about the western motives to be a bit simplistic and idealistic, particularly with the human rights thing.”
I’m not saying that Westerners have pure motives when they promote human rights. Of course they don’t. But they do have legitimate, albeit partially selfish interests in promoting human rights, regardless of the fact that everyone in the world practices human rights imperfectly.

*Re: Anti-China Racism/Prejudice*
It doesn’t look to me like Westerners are significantly motivated by anti-China racism or prejudice. Plenty of ignorance, sure, no doubt! But people aren’t “anti-China” because it’s China – they’re anti any world power that they think doesn’t care enough about human rights, because that scares them. I know many Chinese feel that there’s lots of racism behind Western criticism, but I think this comes from a cultural misunderstanding.

Westerners naturally separate race from nation in their thinking; “race” and “nation” are two different things to Westerners. They can criticize another nation without even thinking about race, because their own nations are not single races. “Canadian” and “American” are not racial categories (unlike “Chinese”). You can be Asian and be American, but you can’t be white and be Chinese, not even 大山. For Mainlanders, “Chinese” means a nation, a race, and a culture all together. Westerners don’t think of all these things together. For example, growing up, my classmates (and fellow Canadians) were from East Asia, India, Africa, Eastern Europe, and South America. That’s normal for me, it’s how we were raised in our neighbourhoods and taught in school. So when people like Knights seem paranoid about all these “anti-China racists”, it doesn’t make sense to me, and it tempts me to wonder if he’s really just projecting. This is just my honest impression as a Westerner – I don’t mean to be accusatory. This is one area of Western culture I feel that Chinese really need to be aware of: the separation of race, nation, and culture in their thinking. When a Westerner criticizes a government, he or she is *not* automatically criticizing a race or culture. Usually they’re just thinking government – criticizing a *race* is so bad in Western culture that most people are afraid to even think it! But Chinese who see nation/race/culture all as one thing, hear criticism of the government/nation as criticism of their race and culture. They are misunderstanding. (I’m very curious what Chinese readers think about this point.)

Westerners aren’t scared of China as a *race* – after all, their own countries are a mix of races. They’re scared of a powerful *nation* that won’t respect human rights because that will affect everyone on the globe. And they aren’t sure yet what kind of world power China will become.

*Re: Your first three questions (A):*
Notice I said “respects human rights *less*…”. I’m not saying Westerners all sincerely and altruistically promote human rights while China doesn’t care at all about rights. It’s not black and white, it’s “more” and “less.” To many Westerners, China’s demonstrated concern for human rights looks significantly less than what has been achieved by Western nations. Of course Western nations also still have lots of ways to improve, and no one should expect China to change instantly overnight. But Western nations want to see that China is actually *moving in the right direction* toward better human rights, and right now they aren’t confident that that is happening. Human rights are not a mark (concrete goal) to reach, it’s a direction to travel in, which has mile markers (concrete goals, or steps) along the way.

*Re: Your next four questions (B):*
“The reason that I am asking you all these things is to prevent a situation where no matter China does it is never enough.”
Two things here. First: If China joins the world, then criticism will never end. Every nation on the world stage is always getting criticism from other nations. That’s just how the world is. The day when China doesn’t face criticism will never come, so China has to learn to live with it. (This is where I wonder if “face” culture becomes a hindrance for China.)

Second: For Western nations, I think it’s not so much about how much China does or doesn’t do. It’s about *which direction* China is going. And, the West wants to see real change, not superficial, sounds-good-in-a-press-conference change that never actually gets implemented, or only gets implemented in a few token instances. I think that’s why many Westerners are skeptical (and fearful) about China.

“These are the things that we need before we say China LIED and BROKEN its promise.”
Don’t forget that I prefaced that with “*to many Westerners, this feels like* China lied and broke its promise.” I’m relating how things appear to many people in the West, not accusing China.

However, I’ve read the quotes myself from government officials and IOC officials, indicating that improving human rights was a condition of winning the Olympic bid, and that the Olympics would in fact result in increased human rights. I’m honestly curious – are there a lot of people who think China *didn’t* commit to improving human rights as part of the deal for winning the Olympic bid? Did China send one message to the world and a different message to its own people?

*(2) What was the human rights situation in 2001? (3) And what is the human rights situation right now in 2008?*
Right now, less than two months before the Olympics?

Please remember, I’m not meaning to argue against China. I’m interested in trying to understand Chinese points of view, and helping Chinese better understand Western points of view.

Sorry I did not clarify, I meant on non-Chinese on GVO.

Americans have a very high tolerance for discussing embarrassing national or cultural problems in public. Much more than my home country (Canada). They don’t care about “face.” Actually, they don’t even know what “face” is.

“Who’s more obsessed with “face” or “pride”?”
My point isn’t to say one country is worse than the other. I’m interested in understanding China and Chinese people, and that means exploring the cultural factors that influence how people think, feel, and behave. My point regarding “face” is about whether or not “face” makes it harder for China to discuss problems in public.

“…do you actually think your president Bush and your Pelosi are that innocent?”
Of course not. I didn’t vote for either of them, and I’ll be glad when their gone, especially the Bush administration (it’s not just one man). But who cares? My point is that Western governments are not behind the criticism of China in the Western media, or the t0rch protests. You can believe that if you want, but it’s just not credible (meaning: almost no well-informed and intelligent person will seriously consider that idea).

Please notice I’m not defending the poor reporting by CNN and other Western media outlets. I just think it’s silly to think that Western governments were behind it all. Some Western media outlets did bad reporting because of bias and ignorance regarding China, and there was lots of bad reporting. However, not everything that makes Chinese people angry is bad reporting. Good reporting will often make at least some people mad.

“Ah, the west is once again acting like a big brother watching over little brother China. Just exactly what kind of human rights violation did China committ? come on, you actually believe in harvesting theory…”
I wasn’t thinking of harvesting. Freedom of expression, access to information, and fair legal process (rule of law) are the human rights issues that most concern Westerners (I think). Westerners care about China’s attitude toward these three things because they fear having a major world power that doesn’t care about or promote these three things. Westerners understand that China’s attitude toward these things will affect the whole world, not just China. That’s why they feel it’s also “their business,” and not just an internal China affair.

Knights, I want to be clear – I’m not interested in a “whose country is better than whose?” debate. And I’m not interested in criticizing China just to put China down. I’m interested in Westerners and Chinese understanding each other better, and to do that, we have to talk about our different points of view. I’m trying to explain how and why many Westerners think the way they do about China. I’m not necessarily saying they are right to think that way.

How come by comments keep getting lost?

I think the exchanges between you, knight, and Chan highlight certain difficulties that in some degree are attributable to the particular style of interaction rather than cultural factors. It could just be that it’s because of the participants involved.

And since knight only replied one of your three points to him (#199), I would like give you my takes on them instead. Hope our style of interaction will be a bit different.

As for your point # 1, I agree with you that the idea that westerners are simply jealous that the Chinese people are happy is kind of hokey. At the same time, I find that your claims about the western motives to be a bit simplistic and idealistic, particularly with the human rights thing.

I wish that it was just about humans rights. Knight was partly right that a lot of anti-China sentiments stem from prejudice, but to attribute them all to a singular factor is a bit fallacious. Certainly there are people that cared a great deal about human right, and had been rather vocal regarding their dissatisfaction with the progress thus far. At the same time, you have to admit that there are also people that like nothing more than just thumb their nose at the “evil empire” for reasons including prejudice and ignorance, and a lot of them do so under the guise of advocacy for human rights.

So, if Knight and Chan were referring to the latter, they are certainly right. But at the same time they are painting an entire group with the same brush — lumping the former with latter. Since we can’t do much for the latter I will try to address the concerns of the former, the people that genuinely care about human rights and want to see China improve herself in that respect.

Before dive headlong into this thing, I want you to answer me a couple things, okay.

A). When you said the following:

“What Westerners care about – what they’re afraid of – is a new world power that respects human rights *less* than everyone else. The West doesn’t want to give power to a nation that will not “play by the rules” (or ignore the rules more than everyone else does).”

I want to know (1) what is the mark that China should shoot for? (2) Has anybody reached this mark (it’s a rhetorical question)? (3) If nobody has reached this mark, then by whose standard should China be judged (the US, Canada, EU, or some other guy)?

You do see where I am going, right? I just want to have a set of CONCRETE GOALS, so we can determine how much China need to do to get there.

B). And when said the following:

“In order to win the Olympic bid, China promised to improve human rights, and even said the Olympics would help advance human rights in China. Everyone can see that this hasn’t really happened, and to Westerners, this feels like China lied and broke its promise.”

So, (1) what exactly did China promise? (2) What was the human rights situation in 2001? (3) And what is the human rights situation right now in 2008? (4) Can you say that China hasn’t made any human rights improvement since 2001?

You see where I am going, right? These are the things that we need before we say China LIED and BROKEN its promise.

The reason that I am asking you all these things is to prevent a situation where no matter China does it is never enough.

Does this quote sound familiar?

“The West opposed the nature of the [ ] rule. If we solve [ ], then they will bring up human rights. If we solve that, they will bring up animal rights.”

I don’t have to say who said it, but you can see how people could tweak it to suit their own end, right?