In case you ever wondered if those Olympic Fuwas weren't just a little too cute to be true, apparently you aren't the only one.
For China, the superstitious formula to that effect which has been making its way across various networks since the Sichuan earthquake looks accurate enough given the number of tragic events which have befallen China already this year. And mention of the Curse of the Fuwas [zh] has been getting deleted left and right and off Baidu and there are even separate versions, so the curse must really exist and the few criticisms of the notion [zh] that do still exist are powerless to stop it.
So, Sohu blogger Elvia Wu sums it up in a post that has since been deleted:
中国，08年的中国真是多事之秋呀！
从年初到现在，中国一直祸事连连。山东火车相撞、西藏闹事、奥运火炬在传递过程中被抢，现在成都又发生了大地震，死伤过万人！
近来在网上及手机短信中流传着这么一段话：
一个福娃头上是风筝，代表潍坊，于是山东出事了；
一个福娃是藏羚羊，于是西藏出事了；
一个福娃是火炬，于是火炬出事了；
一个福娃是熊猫，于是四川出事了；
现在还剩一条鱼 ….
From the beginning of year until now, it's been disaster after disaster for China. The train car collision in Shandong, the unrest in Tibet, grabbing at the Olympic torch during the relay, and now Chengdu has had an earthquake, with tens of thousands dead!
Recently this little passage has been spreading around online and through SMS:
One Fuwa has a kite on its head, representing Weifang, and then something happened in Shandong;
One Fuwa is a Tibetan antelope, and then something happened in Tibet;
One Fuwa is a torch, and then something happened to the Olympic torch;
One Fuwa is a panda, and then something happened in Sichuan;
Now there's still the fish left…
对于中国目前的现状，国人是担忧的，这很能理解！
但我们不应该把奥运会与这些祸事相联。毕竟，奥运会是中国的光荣，是我们中华民族的光荣，是我们经过了很多努力之后才得来的荣誉。奥运福娃的设计是有突破的，是第一个以五个形象，以图组的形式出现在公众面前的。
奥运福娃的象征与这些祸事也许有些许巧合，但非要把这些事情联系在一起来说就是迷信了。
But we should not associate these disasters with the Olympic Games. After all, the Olympics are China's glory, the glory of the Chinese people, and the honor we've earned after all the hard work we've been through. The design of the Olympic Fuwas was a breakthrough, it's the first time that the public has seen it come in a series of five figures.
There are some coincidences between the symbols of the Olympic Fuwas and these disasters, but determination to put these two together is just superstition.
Then there were other evidence points, such as January 25 (01/25) being the day the heaviest snowfall in 50 years fell, paralyzing a large part of the country's transportation and electricity networks, and 1+2+5 adding up to 8; the Tibetan riots broke out on March 14, so 3+1+4; the Shandong train collision occurred on April 28 (4*2=8), and the Sichuan earthquake on May 12. Then to top it all off, 8pm on August 8=888, sign of the Fuwa.
Most recently, the supposed curse has come full circle to bring Beibei into this, with torrential rain across large parts of the country which began on May 26 (2+6), setting records in Hong Kong, swallowing cars whole in Beijing, and flooding rivers from Jiangxi to hundreds of thousands displaced in Guangxi, which as Blogspot blogger Griffin Lee writes, only comes as the country is still left recovering from last month's earthquake:
earthquake's problem hasnt solve yet n now flooding all over places in southern China,
this is a tragic scene , imagine u're one of the victim or ur family or relaives r there.
Send this by E-mail
Hey Kennedy,
This numbers crap is totally stupid!!! So freaking dee dee dee!
God damn! Anybody could pull the vaguest connections out of thin air or their backside to justify all sort of things.
A case in point is my assertion that John Kennedy (you, not the other one) is the devil!
What’s my proof? Well, it is just that you “chose” June 16th, 2008 to start this thread. And what’s the significance of this?
First, June (06), so 0+6 = 6. Second, 16th, so 1*6 = 6. And finally, 2008, so 8-2 = 6. God damn, 666. that proves it. You are the devil!!
Well, not really. I don’t think you are the devil. It’s just that I think the numbers thing is stupid. With the logic we see here, it kind of makes you wonder whether or not Iowa is the new Sodom or Gomorrah (or the victim of some unfortunate curse), given the tornados and flood that had visit it in quick sucession.
The thing is, crap happens all the time. Aside from the earthquake, stuff like floods happens every year in China (and in the States for that matter). FYI, it is monsoon season. And this year’s flood is nowhere near as bad as the one in 2005.
What the heck makes it so special? Oh yeah, I almost forgot. The olympics is just around the corner. Maybe that’s what all the fuss is about. For a second, I thought it was just like the END OF DAYS.
Anyhow, John, why don’t you translate stuff that is more substantive, like things about the labor movement in China. There’s something that is going to change China (maybe the world).
Best
Kain
I agree that the numerology is basically nonsense, but there is still some significance to this story, if for no other reason than that every Chinese person I know is talking about it (the numbers, the bad luck, etc.).
In our area people have been setting off an unusual amount of firecrackers for weeks now, and it’s said this is partly because people are losing confidence regarding the Olympics and their trying to get rid of China’s bad luck.
Evolution is growth or expansion, while involution is decay or contraction. Nature continues to evolve or expand by contracting and creating new goods and beings. The combination of expansion and contraction results in vibration. This is why everything is vibrating in the universe. Decay is as important as growth. For example, old cells in our body must die so that new cells can be born. In order to rise into a new or higher state of consciousness, our old state of consciousness must decay and die.
@JK
Significant Floods in the United States During the 20th Century - USGS Measures a Century of Floods
During the 20th century, floods were the number-one natural disaster in the United States in terms of the number of lives lost and property damage.
What curse is that in US ????
[...] the recent floods across China, the “Fuwas of doom” theory appears to have come full circle. Meanwhile, China’s Internet censors are rushing to delete posts [...]
@Chan are you asking for my personal opinion? I don’t believe in curses, so I can’t really answer that. What you’re describing is something along the lines of what Sharon Stone was talking about, no? I think cursing someone in the verbal sense is an emotional response to a feeling of injustice, physical, legal or economic helplessness or vulnerability, and an alternative to violence or other immediately injurious actions. In that case it might help others better understand what one is feeling, when words or patience fail.
@Kain let me know if you notice your fingers suddenly curl up and fall off sometime within the next week.
@Joel that’s really interesting. I can’t imagine that in the face of all this loss and destruction there is any explanation that makes sense, like all the talk of earthquake predictions. Better they blame the Fuwas I guess than Beijing and corrupt institutions around them. Or not?
@JK
I am asking your opinion, by putting a question “What curse is that in US ????” and surely I am not cursing anything. Don’t put your remark that I am cursing like Sharon Stone. I believe it is all nature work.
So how about you yourself when you put the title of this blog “China: Curse of the Olympic mascots? ” Do you really see yourself after you have given remarks on me ???
@Chan I see. Okay, again, I don’t believe in curses. This post comes after having seen this Fuwa meme floating around online for a month already and while I’d like to believe that most people aren’t taking it that seriously, unfortunately all the posts Google found for me that looked like sharp mockery of the whole idea have already been deleted, so it looks to me that online at this point in time superstition is lingering and probably thriving given the circumstances.
And, not believing in karma or curses, I don’t have much to say about Katrina, if that’s what you’re getting at. From what I understand, it was a horrible tragedy that was handled horribly. This might be more what you’re looking for.
Kennedy, you have a remarkable talent of “gouzaidui”, go for it.
sorry i don’t know how to leave a trackback. Linked to you here: [...]And in case you were wondering what the 2008 Olympics are really about, that translated blog post from Global Voices Online is quite revealing:[...]
@JK
I don’t believe in Karma and curse also. So no point for you to put the title for this Blog “China: Curse of the Olympic mascots? ”
And, I have already put my comments that it is natural evolution.
“This” recommended by you, is not what I want.
I am asking why you are putting this blog title “China: Curse of the Olympic mascots? ”
Since you already have remarked that “I think cursing someone in the verbal sense is an emotional response to a feeling of injustice, physical, legal or economic helplessness or vulnerability, and an alternative to violence or other immediately injurious actions.” This curse subject is really not suitable for me. It seem more meaningful for yourself as you are the one putting the title ??
The Huan-Huan Fuwa does look like a little devil.
Forest fire coming soon?
@Eric Hu Uh-huh, thanks. I’ll make the effort to bring more substantive Olympic-related posts in the future. Just don’t pop up then saying my posts are putting you to sleep. More (in a sense) on China and superstition here.
@Joel Fascinating post, goes deeper than I was able, limited as I am by what I can find on Chinese-language blogs. Thanks a lot!
@Chan I used the title ‘Curse of the Olympic mascots’ because this is the kind of language that Chinese netizens now drawing a connection between what each of the Fuwas represent and a corresponding coincidental major tragedy themselves are using. Ie., these and these search results.
JK,
Are you slapping yourself ??
I heard about this from a Chinese friend several days after the quake. I was wondering about what people would say the fish one represents. Guangdong? Lots of fishing there. Maybe that “Fuwa curse” was all the people stranded at the train station.
Not that I BELIEVE this stuff, but I am starting to get spooked. Then there are all the earthquakes - the US midwest, Sichuan, Iceland, Taiwan, Japan …
since the full circle of curse has happened, it makes me wonder what will happen next?
“sign of the Fuwa” made me laugh. I think that could be a good movie.
Despite the number superstition, adding everything up just amounts to a really bad year for any country. And the year is only half over.
Hey Karma, MF, timur, you guys can join Karze, and Shitty Stone, you guys are meant for each other .. . ;-)
JK, CNN, Globalvoicesonline, and Jack Cafferty are manmade curses to CHina, ;-)
Sorry I forgot to include some other parties in the man-made curse group to China
-The biggest curse of all is our infamous half monk and half politician, Dalai,
-Bush, Brown, Rudd, et al
-Paid human-rights activists
Hey my friends et al,
Premier Wen JiaBao’s facebook almost got 60,000 voters, but it got deleted by facebook. The big CIA boss has given an order to take out anything related to CCP eh?
I now pronounce Facebook a member of CNN, BBC, GVO, JC, JK, media/blogsphere propaganda machine.
Knight, what logic is that???
What did those people do to China that is worse than the Sichuan earthquake? Do you think the victims of the earthquake and other crazy disasters would agree with you that mr. Rudd is a bigger problem than a storm killing their children? Really, what did these people do so wrong to China? They talk about human rights? Annnnd?? Do they kill your innocent Chinese people? Do they censor the information Chinese people read and watch, making the population retarded? Do they violently squash differing opinions making a homogenized mob of a once great empire? Did they eradicate 5000 years of cultural civilization replacing it with ridiculous German, Russian fascism and absolute materialism?
The party killed thousands or millions of Tibetans and tries to castrate them spiritually, so I understand why the Tibetans or Dalai does not appreciate CCP regime, but why you think Dalai Lama or rights activists did something to China, I dont understand.
Sorry for going off topic, but CHINA and US are signing off 30 some deals. Very cool. I am happy, because CHINA is my mom, and U.S.A is my aunt. I would love these two to get along. :-)
Who can say what is the intention of a storm or an earthquake? I mean, we can all have our interpretations, but no one can say it definitively. We can’t exactly know these things, it’s not like you can just ask the flood or the earthquake what it’s intention is or where it came from…
Personally I think all natural entities are living intelligent things. People talk and think, do animals talk and think, do they have souls? Is an ocean any different?
My favorite movie is ‘Spirited Away’. Yeah those things are superstitious, but actually those things are some ancient wisdom and you know, I think that the idea that everything is nothing,like dead, no soul, no thought, no intelligence, no meaning, well, from my background of understanding nature, that is totally superstitious and implausible. I think things in the world are so magical, life, death, thinking, growing, plants, feelings, it is all very mystical, none of it (to me) fits with the belief that the world is one dimensional and meaningless.
So what does the year of disasters in China mean to me? Well all I can do is interpret from my perspective. In Buddhism there is a thing called stick warning or stick wake up, I dont remember which its called or if its two different things. The Master would hit the student on the head with the stick if the student was not enlightening to something (something like this)…
So if I was to guess at why these things are happening to Chinese people, I think I would say that it might mean WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!
Did someone say now theres still the fish left?
1 Million Homeless in China Floods
Guanzhou: “Raging rivers have collapsed tens of thousands of homes, damaged crops across more than two million acres and causing more than an estimated $1.5 billion in economic losses.”
Farmers ditched their plows and waded into the neck-high waters with nets to catch fish.”
I never looked at the mascots before, its hard to tell what they are…
I hope the CCP will be in prison by August so the Chinese people can have a nice Olympics.
Carryanne, you misunderstood my message. Let me clarify it for you.
I do NOT think the victims appreciate Karze, PK, JK and stone the shithole et al comments either.
The Sichuan earthquake is the most tragic, and my message states that on top of that, these parties that I have mentioned above, are adding salt to injury.
interpret however you like, it’s your free speech right?
“Yeah those things are superstitious, but actually those things are some ancient wisdom and you know, I think that the idea that everything is nothing,like dead, no soul, no thought, no intelligence, no meaning, well, from my background of understanding nature, that is totally superstitious and implausible. I think things in the world are so magical, life, death, thinking, growing, plants, feelings, it is all very mystical, none of it (to me) fits with the belief that the world is one dimensional and meaningless.”
Hello, I never said I do NOT believe in souls, spirits etc. I also believe in science, and thank you I am NOT as crazy as you your friends such as JK, karze, pk et al.
Thank goodness some of us are free to choose what to and not to believe in. Pity those who can’t.
Carryanne, I am moderate buddhist, NOT a crazy one,
wait let me borrow a similar quote from Matt Y. in some other GVO forum
We know of the words “superstition”, “buddhism”, “nature”, “souls” etc . . .so come on lecture us something new. . . . ;-)
“I hope the CCP will be in prison by August so the Chinese people can have a nice Olympics.”
I hope the terrorists and separatists will be in prison by August so the Chinese people (56 minzhu ethnic groups) can have a nice Olympics.
Carryanne:
Yeah, it is about time that the Chinese people WAKE UP — and see through all of the Falun Gong driven anti-CCP crap that you are spewing.
Did I mention that you are a political Jackal? Just in case you missed that one, yeah, you are an opportunistic Jackal. All anyone has to do is go back to the comments you posted right after the 5.12 earthquake to see what a vile and soulless person you are.
Do you want me to copy and paste them here?
Oh yeah, bring all your Falun Gong crap into the open, so we can all see it for what it really is.
You can call me a CCP agent or whatever you want. I am sure you will. But just bring your Falun Gong crap in to the open! Bring it on!
Here’s some reading for anybody that cares.
http://exposingthefalungong.org/
best
Kain
Thanks Kain, very nice reading on the evil Falun cult. I have always known Falun is an evil cult, so I have asked my family and friends to stay away from it.
I have an alternative name for the Nobel peace prize, and it’s called western anti-China prize.
Hey Kennedy,
“@Kain let me know if you notice your fingers suddenly curl up and fall off sometime within the next week.”
Thanks for your best regards.
As for anything substantive, I won’t hold my breath.
Are you familiar with the phrase 搅粪棒? Sometimes there isn’t all that much difference between 搅粪棒 and 狗仔队, especially when there’s an audience to pander to. Just be mindful of what kind of audience you want to attract to your forum. It could potentially have a quite a large impact on whether it will turn in to a forum for meaningful exchange or a road rage forum.
Gee, from the quality of the comments to your articles so far, they tend to lead quite bit toward the latter. I personally would like to see more constructive venues that can foster more meaningful exchanges.
It kind of gives new meaning to “Global Voices” if everybody is screaming at each other. But, hey, if that’s what you are shooting for, keep up the good work.
Best
Kain
P.S. Today is June 17, 2008. It would be cinchy for me to pull the number 666 out of it. To make it more challenging, do you want to bet on whether or not I could pull the number 666 out of every date this month?
@JK #5
Since my question “Are you slapping yourself ?” directed to JK, still now can’t be answered by JK himself. Let me tell him what my opinion is; JK instead is slapping himself because 1) I do not believe in curse, and he accused me of cursing like sharon stone,3) since he remarked that I am cursing by putting a question “What curses is that in US?”, he fail to see that the title “Curse of Olympic mascots ?” (also a question)initiated by himself over here, but he fail to see himself before/after he remarked me 2) He himself said ” he do not believe curse and karma too” but he is putting the question “Curse of Olympic mascots ?” this is a question and the title of his blog.
Anyway, this is his job, I believe he has reasons to say that this started from China. However, by using this blog title “curse of Olympic mascots?”, I would like to return the remark he given to me back to himself.
Knight, I was not criticizing your beliefs I was questioning why you think some foreign people who have not done anything to your country are somehow so terrible to the point that they are the worste things for China. China has major problems including natural disasters and all sorts of huge issues, so I was wondering why you overlook those stuff and say that the comments of Sharon Stone have somehow harmed your country?????
kain, bring it on, what the hey are you on about??? You take every opportunity to curse out Falun Gong, Falun Gong is not the only issue in China, you know that and I know that, so what is your major problem? Evil cult? Whatever, you wanna paste up some terrible things I said? You say I’m a political bad guy??? I am not, I tell you the truth, I am not a bad guy so bring it on, or better yet just cool off cause you got nothin’ on me, better yet, why don’t we communicate like civilized adults and be more real. I tell you I am no jackal, and I am not interested in China’s political whatever, why dont you believe that I actually care about human rights?
@carryane
Why do you need to force your belief in Falun Gong is Good to others. Could you repect people’s belief ? We Chinese, ourselves got a long history or proven records in practicing Qigong, we know what is good and bad practices through so many years of practicing by ourselves before your grands are born !!! There are many kind of Qigong in China(Shaolin, tai ji, ba qua, dao, Wu dan, Er Mei….etc), which has long long history and better background than Falun Gong which has no back ground or foundation.Do you know even some clause of the Holy Bible can be missused.Even for Buddhism and many other religions. However, a wise man is able to see clearly. I myself practice Shaolin qigong for a few years during my teenage for my own health only and not for gaining floating skill or “deity”, but I can not float like “Falun Gong” master Li.My teacher teaching me Qigong also never declared himself as “deity”. Maybe he should try to float from US back to China without using aircraft, so that more people would believe he is deity. :-)
Go ahead, if you believe in it you can practice Falun Gong to become “deity” and see whether it is good for you first !!! It is really need a strong belief to make your dream come true. :-) All the best to you after practice “deity” Falun Gong. :-) Remember to put a link here to show us after you have achieved “deity” and “floating”. Thanks
Carryanne:
I don’t believe for a second that you care about human rights. It just happens that’s your weapon of choice.
Yeah, I said WEAPON OF CHOICE. In the name of human rights, you can concoct all sort of crap and gain immediate credibility. Why? Because China seems like the sort of “Bad Guy” that people love to hate. Just give people a reason; Any reason will suffice — be it real of imagined.
As a Falun Gong sock puppet, ain’t that the stuff you guys are best at? That is, giving people reasons to lambaste China. And in doing so legitimize your own cause.
How? If china is the “Bad guy” and you are being hassled by the China, then you must be a “Good guy”, right? Ain’t that what your CCP bitching is all about?
Yeah, that makes you a political Jackal. You don’t give a flying monkey’s arse about human rights. All you care about is advancing your agenda at any cause — even to the point of fabricating crap.
And when that comes at the expense of something that cares a heck a lot about, that’s where I draw the line. So, bring all your Falun Gong crap into the open.
This is a discussion space, nobody is forcing anything on anyone.
@carryanne
For Sharon Stone issue, please see JK response to me. May be it would be helpful to to you. :-)
@JK
I don’t like the way your comment on JK#5, please take note !!!
Carryane:
“So what does the year of disasters in China mean to me?…. So if I was to guess at why these things are happening to Chinese people, I think I would say that it might mean WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!” (Comment #23)
Yeah, it is this sort of comments that shows you to be a completely vile and soulless person.
People died in these disasters! A lot of people died; People who haven’t done anything except the simple misfortune of being where they are at the time.
To say that their death is some kind of cosmic lesson against the CCP simply shows that you are nothing but a vile soulless Jackal that will use any means and opportunity to advance your agenda.
Anything you espouse should be doubly scrutinized.
Very interesting article, JK. Thanks again. I’m sorry to see that some of the more rabid netizens have shown up here to froth at the mouth about perceived slights towards China. These kind of people (chan, Kain) give the Chinese a bad name. They embarrass China more than Westerners ever could. It’s sad, because the Chinese people I met in China were almost always kind and polite, even when discussing political subjects we disagreed on.
Of course, you don’t meet psychopathic netizens on the streets of China among the normal Chinese - the netizens are hidden away in the net bars all night, starting fights over nothing in order to add some drama to their otherwise dull lives, which consist of playing games on the Internet and looking at porn. Grow up, guys. Westerners criticize their own countries, too. While we don’t like certain aspects of the Chinese government, many of us love other parts of China deeply. You need to realize that the Chinese and Westerners aren’t enemies. You rabid netizens are only hurting China’s image.
For the FUWAS representation on each disaster is really a creative thought by some people, however really natural disaster will happen everywhere on earth at anytime. Even in developed and modern country like US.
From USGS website indictade that,
During the 20th century, floods were the number-one natural disaster in the United States in terms of number of lives lost and property damage. They can occur at any time of the year, in any part of the country, and at any time of the day or night. Most lives are lost when people are swept away by flood currents, whereas most property damage results from inundation by sediment-laden water. Flood currents also possess tremendous destructive power, as lateral forces can demolish buildings and erosion can undermine bridge foundations and footings leading to the collapse of structures. The accompanying map and table locate and describe 32 of the most significant floods of the 20th century.
I really can give my earnest hope there will be no more disasters on Earth.JK,please be reminded that I am Not cursing on the disasters please, as it is true “nature” thing that all human beings are facing on Earth. and help each other when neccessary.
@Chan
Noted. You also don’t seem to like the fact that this Fuwa curse/numerology stuff has been widely discussed online in Chinese, also noted. If this doesn’t fit into your idea of what One True China should look like, that’s tough, flinging crap at me won’t make it go away. I didn’t write this post, I’m not making this stuff up, I only translated it. My job and goal is to bring relevant discussions from the Chinese blogosphere into English. Unfortunately, as I mentioned, posts and threads I found on Google that appeared to try and debunk this whole idea (including, I should point out, the one I’ve translated above), have all been deleted. My involvement in this discussion won’t go anywhere if all you’re going to do is try and hold me responsible for that.
Your biggest issue as far as I can tell is with the title of this post. It seemed obvious to me, given that Chinese posts on this topic used the same wording or very similar variations of it. The post I translated, for example, had the title ‘Is there a connection between these disasters and the Fuwas?’ (灾难与福娃有关吗？) Please tell me what sort of headline it is that you would have liked to see on this post.
On that note, how would you go about debunking this kind of idea to the kind of people that now entertain it?
@Chan
Thanks for those points you make. When irrational (death and destruction) tragedies occur, I think it’s just human to try and find a rational explanation for that, even if that explanation wouldn’t normally make much sense. And I don’t think many people really truly believe that the Fuwas are secretly destroying China. I tried to make this point above, but apparently I wasn’t clear enough in that attempt.
@JK
Yes, JK you are indeed smart guy and reasonable now. I remembered that someone9my wife) told me once, but I really did not care to find out more as I really think it is meaningless to relate each FUWAS to each disaster.And I am not staying in China, and I seldom surf China Net. However, after all these I found that it is really a creative thought by some people but a bit of negative.However, most of the Chinese Netizens are thinking very positively after each major disaster happened to them. We as outsiders also should contribute positiveness to this Olympic FUWAS, try to stop spreading this negative about the FUWAS. I think the most importance is stop thinking of negatives as we could not really stop natural disaster.I could not blame anyone, they are the one who had faced very serious disasters when hosting the event. However they are strong and they stand strongly and positively in front of the World. They are capable of hosting it. So Stop try to link any more negatives to Olympic FUWAS for the Olympic should be a Joyful and Peaceful event for the World and Everyone on Earth.We as human beings on this planent could help contribute more positiveness to Olympic 2008, it is a World event, not just China event. China is indeed very pround and positive to host this World Event successfully for everyone. Promote positiveness from now !!! Dam God want us to live happier each day and could not stop natural disaster, we have to stop ourselves by stopping negativities. And, Start generate positiveness now !!!
Definately JK want to be better, more positive and he could contribute to Olympic -the World event positively, Title should be “The True Meaning or Respresentation of FUWAS For Olympic 2008″ completely positive and healthy. This is my recommendation, I do not force anyhting over a discussion space provided by you. You are the owner of this space, and I will give my due respect to you as owner. You recommend as you ask for it.
Any better Title or Ideas from Others like Kinghts, my_mother or anyone ? Thanks. One day, I hope people will said “JK for Olympics!!!” over here.
Brent:
Thank you for considering myself to be Chinese! I take that as a complement.
Yeah, porn surfing has been slow lately. I kind of have to admit that porn withdrawal can make people kind of edgy.
So, when you are saying that I am making ordinary Chinese look bad are you speaking from the perspective of the ordinary Chinese person or as an Anglo?
And if I could be so bold as to ask you how would, or shall I say SHOULD, an ordinary or typical Chinese behave? After all isn’t that the White Man’s Burden — to educate us non-anglos as to the proper way of carrying ourselves?
First, we got self-righteous A-holes, pardon my french, try educate us on what’s the proper way of solving our own problems — as if we are completely incapable. Now, we got you lecturing us on what’s the proper way of carrying on.
Are these stuff that far removed from the the “White Man’s Burden” of yesteryears? It sure does seem like it from this end.
But hey, if you have, as people used to say, completely “gone native” and understand exactly how ordinary Chinese think, feel and behave, then I offer you my sincerest apology for behaving in a way unbecoming of an ordinary Chinese.
Anyhow, Brent, have to cut this cut. Got to get back to my porn surfing (already frothing at the mouth).
Best
Kain
P.S. You can call me rabid, or what the heck you feel like. The thing is if we don’t speak for ourselves, then who will?
@my_mother: xtube.com
@chan: I can’t promise to give the Fuwas or GVO’s Olympics blog coverage a strictly positive spin. Off-hand, I can however assert that even devil SOBs give off positive vibes sometimes too.
@JK
It is completely ok for me. I suggested because you ask for it. Most importantly, you have already seen what I mean this time and I have seen yours.
Hey Kennedy,
Thanks for recommending your favorite Porn site to me. xtube.com rocks. Is this where you go for all your hank (slang for Porn; short for hanky-panky)?
And by the way called Kain. It doesn’t look good when you recommend porn to your mother.
Best
Kain
I mean call me Kain. Typo #49
@chan
Fair enough. Btw, regarding your other comment left just now, please see the points for consideration directly below the comment box:
# Please treat others with respect.
# Comments containing hate speech, obscenity, and personal attacks will not be approved.
Would it be possible for you to revise your comment addressed to Brent and submit it again?
@JK
Ok, Brent mouth is completely healthy from now. I hope that would hurt your feeling any more :-0
@Kain Being a good web 2.0 geek, of course I make as much porn as I consume. So don’t forget to give me a good rating if you ever come across my hank on there.
Hey Kennedy,
I was going to tell Brent that I was about to run over to my neighbor’s to make sure that the Chinese and Westerners aren’t enemies. But I decided that was of rather poor taste. But I guess it’s kind of appropriate now after your porn recommendation.
Anyhow, I will give you a thumbs up if I run across your hank. I hope it’s not butt porn. I am going have to give you couple of thumbs down if that’s the case.
Just look at the unifying effect of porn — how it brings people that can’t agree on things together. We should exploit porn as a tool of diplomacy. And we owe it all to Brent for bringing it up in the first place. Thanks Brent!!!
Anyhow, Kennedy, it is been fun. Too much intellectual discussions for one night. I got to wake up earlier in the morning to teach people some bullshit about psychology.
Best
Kain
@Brent
You really embarrass yourself too. I am not China. I speak for myself. Brent,Grow up, be more resonable to see thing properly, don’t link my opinion over here as China and wake up your mind. Most westerner I meet is reasonable too before they comment. Never meet a person so unreasonable before before. Don’t embarrass yourself.
[cracking up] Whoo! June 18th discussions is definitely better than porn. I am really getting a kick out of this.
answer to Chan,
FUWAS represent the futures of China. . . .
I would not blame the fuwas, if I were superstitious as my buddhist family members are, then I would blame the year of the rat. Then again I am NOT superstitious. I do NOT believe in karmic crap.
Yes, to prove myself that I am not supertitious and not believe in Karmic crap. This topic is meaningless to me. I would not enter this Blog Topic over here anymore. Only those who believe in curse or supertitious wanted to re-generate this topic(like what JK did, however he said he is not).
(Reuters) - Floods sweeping southern China seem to have fulfilled the final stanza of an Internet curse involving Beijing’s Olympic mascots.
To fullfilled your superstitious desires, dalai may have attached the curses to the mascots. yes he knows black magic .. . ..
I am a bit confused by the blog entry saying “the Olympics are China’s glory, the glory of the Chinese people”…
I thought the Olymics were about world getting together as one for fair athletic competition, making people feel proud of their fellow citizens for their effors, things like that. Perhaps now its more about spreading commericalism, which many would object to, but I worry when people take an international sports competition as mostly a showcase for one nations’ glory.
Yes, Brent, teach us chinks to behave like an Anglo. After all we are “goons” and “thugs” right?(borrowed from Jack goon cafferty the thug)
hey “chinky” brothers and sisters, and I mean all 56 ethnicities including tibetans, let’s protest :-)
It’s Friday for me (eastern USA), so Have a wonderful chinky weekend ;-)
PEACE
[lol]
Jesse Owen, It seems like you are just coming out of the shell, let me brief you a bit
Initally we did not brag about our five thousand years of glory and the Olympics. You are exactly right, it’s about sports and competition. Come on the olympics is just a game invented by the west just like the nobel peace prize is invented for people who are anti-China.
So we tried to participate in the olympics, because if we don’t we are being called sick men of asia. Now that we do participate, we are accused of human rights violations and we are being called other names such as goons and thugs.
It’s the west who harrassed china initially by saying “oh it’s a shame olympics, therefore we let the paris man harrass and attack the chinese handicap girl, it’s justice, hahahaahha . . .”
Then the Chinese started fight back by saying olympics is our glory etc. . .
Mississippi River overflows and floods!
Let’s not jest about natural disasters.
@Jesse Owens, and everyone
You’ve probably noticed how many Mainlanders are hyper-sensitive to being called names by Westerners. Knights is a fine example, having already angrily brought up “sick man of Asia,” “goons and thugs,” “chinks,” etc. Westerners often don’t understand why Mainlanders care so much about mere name-calling. Americans have simply shrugged off “foreign devils,” “barbarians,” the over-the-top political rhetoric and the current extreme anti-foreign rhetoric of China’s fenqing and “Online Red Guards” for decades now.
My point is that there are cultural and historical reasons for why Mainlanders and the West so easily don’t get along, and why many Mainlanders come across to Westerners as overly-sensitive. These same differences are connected to that blog quote you brought up, about the Olympics being for China’s “glory” (more accurately: “face”). Why is there such a desperate felt-need to have the world “look up to China”?
If you’re interested in the cultural angle on what’s going on with all this:
What do the Olympics mean to “their China”?
Why Mainlanders are taking it personally
I don’t have all the answers, of course, but the cultural factors are interesting to explore.
Excellent Analysis Joel.
It is good to see that someone actually taking the effort to peel the onion.
I hope you do understand that because of the exact reasons that you had touched on in your articles the solutions to some of most pressing problems facing China have to be Chinese ones.
Best
Kain
Knights: How come you have to start most of your posts with a rude comment to insult the previous poster? It really limits people’s desire to have a discussion. I have many things I’d like to say, but with people such as you posting here it really makes me want to stop bothering. I suggest that you be more polite, 更文明 or stop posting, please. Thanks
Hey Jesse,
You shouldn’t let what people say stop you. If you have stuff to say, then say it.
best
Kain
@Kain
Thanks. And I generally agree with your sentiment. I suppose I’d add that given that many of China’s problems involve foreigners or foreign influence at some level, I think the answers will also involve non-Chinese in various ways. As we realize more and more the interrelated nature of our globe, other people’s problems more and more become everyone’s problems. But obviously the major players in all that will be the Chinese.
I would not care about talking about this stuff if I wasn’t protesting human rights violations. I understand that the regime in China is really terrible and I am not asking you to ‘believe’ that. I think you and me are just exposed to different info and so we have different points of view and thoughts. But I will tell you that you are dead wrong if you think that my starting point is wanting to attack the CCP and then coming up with excuses to do so. I am a regular person with no political agenda, I genuinely care about human rights. There are a few different human rights, so maybe you think it is something different from me. What bugs me about the CCP is that they don’t let people understand anything in a natural way. They force people with violence and other forceful tactics to think certain ways that provides the environment for their own longevity. I think it is a humans right to think for them self and not be violently forced to change their mind based on some cultural revolution religious/political insanity. People who are forced to live a lie and now the younger generation growing up in a country so warped by propaganda and totalitarianism/terrorism.
In terms of karma, earthquake, Falun Gong… I don’t care what you believe, but those people should not be harmed and brainwashed so severely, the things I have heard, it is so gross and I do not think that the CCP is incapable of all sorts of terrible acts of brutality.
I only said that the earthquake was a wake up because I think everything happens for a reason, I don’t believe in chaos and coincidences, so I try to understand. And I dont say it’s a wake up just for CCP but for all Chinese people to understand how their country has lost its dignity (to a large degree).
Besides, when you believe in reincarnation, you are not all terrified of death, if an earthquake takes your life, so be it, thats nature. Its horrible for sure, really negative, but according to the idea of multiple lifetimes, people have lived so many times, so how can you say they are innocent or guilty? Anyway, these are just spiritual ideas, obviously these are more for a spiritual discussion and now I seem to just be trying to prove to someone that I am not a political jackal..!?
@carryanne
That is just a point of point(your point of view is of too small coverage).You see things unclearly at one corner and you are going to confirm it.You are like preaching your ideology(comments)over and over again. However, people have the right to choose either. You can even said that people are “brainwashed or force to”, but I don’t think so.
Your “human right” seem do not need to have any Righteouness at all, freewill to do anything, it is abused. This type of “Human Right” is not acceptable by me.
chan,
I never said that doing whatever one wants is a human right, so how can you imply that I said that? You are just accusing me of so much stuff that is untrue, why? Do I know you from somewhere and you have a grudge against me or something?
I already said that I don’t care if people agree with me, I am only here for open discussion and cause I care. You can disbelieve me if you want but why?
Anyway, I don’t know why you accuse me all the time.
@carryanne
very logic and simple, if I disbelieve anything and I like to express my disbeliefs, and because I don’t agreed beacuse I see things from many angles and more clearly with moral. Ultimately, it is also my Human Right & Freedom to disbelieve you and I care also….:-)
Carryanne;
Open discussion with you is kind of like a farce. You have never been open to discussing anything except just pushing the same old hackney anti-CCP crap. You really don’t care about human rights at all, and that’s why people are critical of you. And rightly so.
If you really are just here for open discussion, why don’t we have an open discussion about Falun Gong — its on going propaganda war with the CCP; The reasons why it was banned in China; and most important of all what are its real motives.
Doing so would go a long way in helping us understand your true motives. plus, if you truly care about human rights as you claimed, what is the harm? And if your cause is truly just and righteous, wouldn’t open discussion help advance it rather than retard it?
To be born in China and having to LIVE there is the biggest “curse” of all.
All the violent, cruel, horrific destruction of nature, fauna and flora there.
The repressive atmosphere there, the wonderful, beautiful historic monuments and diverse culture being wiped out…
NASTY place!
So maybe we can say that the 2008 Olympics became only for the glory of China when the CCP realised that it would be treated just like any other country that is involved in international politics (i.e. treated in a biased way by the corporate media, not supported 100% by everyone, protested by people of a different ideology)? I think then this shows a general lack of confidence?
My culture (Canada/USA) always told me that my confidence and self-esteem shouldn’t be based on what everyone else thinks about me, but on my own view and maybe those of my friends and family: It is probably from this perspective that a lot of the western response comes from. If China “can’t take the heat” then they should “get out of the kitchen”?
After all, it takes a lot of confidence to handle being treated like other countries and culture on the world stage, and it seems many people are not up to taking the criticism in a constructive or critical way. Hence, the only reaction can be nationalism and claiming everyone else is biased, thereby closing your ears and eyes.
Getting back to the subject… for those who don’t want to or cannot close their eyes and ignore the rest of the world, maybe blaming it all on the unlucky Fuwa is a way for those dispirited, disinterested, alienated, etc, Mainlanders to disconnect themselves from the Olympics?
Otherwise, if this is just a fun thing that people are doing to amuse themselves, then maybe we should take it with a grain of salt. But if it threatens stability or national interest in the Olympics, that is quite different.
@Al
China is a Heaven on Earth. I love China. The environment there is lovely, kind, charming, friendly, gentle, prosperous,warm,of histoirc culture and civilization…all the goods I can imagine, I would be able to find there.
@Jesse Owen
I think The World is looking at China especially for Olympic 2008. The World is not just make up of one Western direction, Please don’t ignore the rest of the World also. You are just a part of the World only. The World (consists of many nations, north, south, east , west)and peoples are watching China as they are watching Westerners and everything also. We (all peoples of the World) are able to see things clearly at many different angles and from different positions(part of the World)….there are many points of views…people are listening and they know the meaning..:-)
Al;
I really have thank you from the bottom of my heart.
I was just about to say that the world is full of retarded idiots who are either unable or unwilling to think.
Now I don’t have to. Your comment showed just exactly that.
Again Thanks
chan:
See, this is what I was talking about, the level of discourse here. Again my intelligence is insulted by someone who didn’t understand what I was writing. If your job was to turn this into some kind of insult-fest to make people sick of posting comments then I think you guys are succeding very well. I would try and reply to make things more clear, but I am afraid I will just be insulted again. Good job!
Jesse Owen,
Come on, don’t think it this way. You have expressed your brillant idea. And, I have expressed mine also. May be they are of different angle of view, that’s all about. Assure you that no insulting from me.
chen:
Perhaps being pretentious in alerting me to the fact that the whole world isn’t “western” is quite rude? For I never said that, I was explaining how people in the west would feel about these things and why it causes a problem with western media vs. Chinese.
It is certainly brilliant of you to point out that other sides have a different view, but you didn’t mention what their view was, so it didn’t contribute much to the conversation. As far as I know there is no conflict between African media or other “third world” media and Chinese media in this regard, if there is we’d all love to know. Everyone knows everyone has a different opinion, but no one realizes it or does anythign about it.
So if you want to contribute someting why not comment on my theory of the Fuwa being the targets of Chinese who are afraid to be patriotic?
I dont know how many times I need to say that I do care about human rights and I have done nothing to indicate otherwise.
Maybe you like the CCP and I think the CCP is horrible, so why do you think that I must be wrong. Open discussion needs to accept that people have different opinions and you cant just always insult people so harshly because you feel they are wrong. Open discussion means you should respect the people you are discussing with right?
How can I discuss with you when I say one thing and you insist that my intentions are this or that? How do you know my intentions? I never made such assumptions about you. Why we dont just discuss Falun Gong? Because this blog is of someone elses, so I am not the one who decides what the discussion is based on.
Is there some particular point about Falun Gong you wan to address. There is plenty of info available and plenty info NOT available, do I have to tell you why its not available? Did you read David Matas and David Kilgours report on Organ Harvesting? It is not absolute proof but the absolute prrofs are unattainable do to the censoships of the party and all out restrictions on investigating Falun Gong.
Carryanne,
You can say stuff like “I do care about human rights” as many times as you want. That really doesn’t change the fact that you are a callus jackal that will exploit every opportunity to push your Falun Gong agenda.
It is because of the very fact that you claimed to “care” about human rights that we have to CRITICAL of your claims and assertions. What really suffer because of the SPURIOUS, even worse, complete fabricated human rights issues are the true human rights issues that need urgent redress.
The organ harvest thing that you brought up is a perfect example of complete fiction dressed up in the guise of “human rights violation”. Here’s something by one your biggest fans, Samuel Luo, on exactly this issue and David Matas and David Kilgours’ report.
http://exposingthefalungong.org/fgorganharvesting.html
Have fun reading! And go Sammy go! Go Sammy go!
Best
Kain
P.S. Like I said before, I am not big fan of the CCP, but if the alternative is soulless uncaring Jackals like you, I will take the CCP any day.
There’s no “Heaven on Earth”, there’s no best country or people in the world.
It’s all the same humankind all over our poor, sufeering planet.
Patriotrism, ufanism, culturecentrism and racism all come from the same source: the savage human need urge to feel superior and dominate/subjugate/conquer others.
Humans must let go of the need to claim to be the biggest, the most powerful in the world.
The Earth does not belong to humans. It was here before humans appeared and It’ll remain after humans are gone.
Hey Jesse Owen,
I liked your comment above (#75). I think it has a lot of merit. It summarized the western perspective pretty nicely.
I too think that China is a big boy now, it should behave like one. It shouldn’t care so much about media slants or what not. The perfect solution is to allow a greater degree of transparency as they did in the following weeks after the 5.12 earthquake. When there is an abundance of information, a good deal of the media and personal biases will just get washed out. But when transparency is lacking and information are scarce, even the most ludicrous fiction is often taken as fact (e.g., the Falun Gong Organ harvest thing).
Yeah, China needs to grow up and own up to the part that it plays (unwitting) in the fueling the ongoing media and personal biases, particularly in the west. They need to open up, so people won’t have to fill in the gaps with what ever fantasies that come to their minds.
Better yet, China needs to learn the finer art of spin and soft pedaling. I think they will eventually. Just give them a couple of years, if not sooner.
But there is something that you could take into more of a perspective. It is this issue of confidence. I know that the Chinese government is always a bit insecure, so they will always complaint about things. But do you think that the same is true for the people?
How come they are much more vocal now than before? It is not like all the biases and “constructive criticisms” all of the suddenly materialize out of thin air?
They were there from the beginning. You kind have to ask was there a time that China was viewed in the west favorably? Perhaps in the 50’s? In the 60’s and 70’s? The 80’s, 90’s….?
So, how come the people are so vocal now, and not then? Could it possibly be that they are more vocal now because they more confident, more assertive, and more certain of their ascendancy? I will let you think about that one.
Best
Kain
When I attended one of the ARTs History class, we were discussing some human rights topics, my Caucasian American professor said “Chinese governments execute first-degree murder prisoners, and American governments buy those body parts for experimentation” The whole class went “oh my Gosh!”
So much for human rights right? Carryanne, if you truly care about human rights, why don’t you question Iraq? I am sure the million civilians died must thank Bush for doing them a favor to end their miserable lives living in the war zone right?
Have you read the news lately, USA and Britain and trying to bully Iran and Afghantistan?
NO, I am NOT saying two wrongs make a right, but if you insist that you do not have a propaganda, then be fair, and talk about topics that pertains to all human rights, and NOT just China’s human rights. Then I will believe that you are sincere and you truly care about human rights regardless which governments, or which race?
Al, Are you CHinese or Anglo? Were you born in China, if yes I am sorry. If no, I am sorry that you are so blind. The place that gives birth to people like you are already cursed. . . .
RE: Falungong and organ harvesting.
I read the original report online. It included links to the homepages of organ transplant hospitals alleged to be performing live organ transplants. I checked out the links. On the information page for prospective foreign patients at one hospital, I read the following statement (boldface mine): It is not possible to perform live pancreas transplants on foreign patients.
Draw your own conclusion.
I wouldn’t wipe my bottom with the Epoch Times, but seeing that statement among other evidence made me suspicious. Chinese doctors participate in lethal injections and have worked to develop the procedures used in mobile execution vans. It is not implausible that some doctors might feel it’s better to save many lives with organs that haven’t deteriorated yet. The prisoner is sedated anyway before given the drugs that paralyze muscles and stop the heart. Accusations of organ harvests from still living prisoners will never be proven or disproven.
Jesse Owen,
I like to clarify on “being pretentiuos” and “being rude”.Please don’t treat me “as rude and being pretentious” when I want to express myself.
In fact, I heard your “how people in the west would feel about these things and why it causes a problem with western media vs. Chinese.” as valuable and good. I never said that your view is wrong.
However,perhap that might not be 100% west.(in my opinion, in a larger view of the West). There are many views from the West either. As what Kain have siad “they are open to hear and see”. “They are able to consider what is good for them”
So I expressed there are really many views from the World.(my view). What are all of them actually, is really too large for me to cover completely.
For Fuwas, I have commented that there should be positive about them as they linked to the Olympic. Any negative of the Fuwas is not agreed by me(myself), even though the negativity respresentations were originated from the Chinese(as expalined by John).Personally, I do not like negative represenations of Fuwas. I do not really like to re-generate on the negative respresentations of the Fuwas. Ultimately, The Spirit of Olympic is always Positive, in my understanding.
chan & Knights:
Well, I believe there is a way to express your opinion without insulting the other people you’re talking with in a public place like this, perhaps we should focus more on that? Especially when many people are not native speakers, and there’s many people employed by pro- and anit-CCP organizations here as well.
I think the western reaction to this is more like “oh how quaint, the Chinese are so superstitious” or, like my opinion, “maybe they’re using this to distance themselves from the controversial Olympics.” But does the average Chinese take it really seriously?
Hey Sonagi,
When you said you read the original article, I assume it is the Matas and Kilgours report, right?
The problems is that the Matas and Kilgours report is full of gaping holes. Oh, where I should I start?
Well, let’s just get to the point and start with Section E — Method of Proof. While they claimed that “Proof can be either inductive or deductive”. The reasoning of the whole report was purely inductive — weak inductive reasoning for that matter.
For those of you who are not familiar with what inductive reasoning is, check out the following link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_reasoning
Anyhow, to pave the groundworks for making their weak inductive argument, Matas and Kilgours kind of grease the skids a bit by starting Section F — Elements of Proof and Disproof — with Subsection a: General considerations. In a sense, you can call this their general premise.
Of course unsurprisingly, they start (1) with human rights violations. With a bit of appealing to belief (you can google that one), they lay out their first premise — CHINA IS A KNOWN HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATOR.
Then they laid out premises #2 & 3 — which are (2) CHINESE HOSPITALS NEED MONEY and (3) THE CHINESE ARMY NEEDS MONEY TOO.
And finally, premise #4 — (4) CHINA IS HOPELESS CORRUPT.
Oh damn, it is like Deja Vu. If they sound familiar to you, it is probably the case that you had ran into recycled forms of these premises in the endless streams of “Chinky Bashing” posts and comments out there.
So, why the fuck are these premises necessary. Well, to put in succinctly, to make their story more believable. That is, if people accepted these premises, then it is only a hop and skip away from “proving” their case.
At this point, most people are sold on idea already because China is the kind of bad guy that you would love to hate.
In short, when Matas and Kilgours added in the transplant ethnics in china, the money made from organ sales, and finishes up with the Falun Gong narrative, I would be quite surprised if most people are not rushing out to contact their congressmen about the huge organ factories in China that are sucking out people’s organs left and right.
To summarize their argument:
The premises (four horsemen of the apocalypse):
1. China is the bad guy.
2. Their hospitals are greedy
3. Their military is greedy
4. And they are hopelessly corrupt.
The “evidence”:
1. China have the means to do organ transplants, the number of transplants are increasing, their transplant ethnics are dubious, and they are making a
lot of money.
2. Falun Gong said that they are doing it.
Bam! The Conclusion:
1. Ding, ding, ding… THEY MUST BE DOING IT!
So, what’s wrong with this argument? And you might say that you see nothing wrong with it. Frankly, the general premise kind of stacks the deck so most people don’t bother to examine the evidence all that rigorously, IF AT ALL.
And so what if China complains and denies the allegations, their credibility is ZERO. Instead of examining to see what is true and what is not, most people would just say “THOSE LYING CHINKY BASTARDS”. Well, not quite those words, but you get what I mean, right?
And the thing is, Falun Gong knows that, and they exploit it at every opportunity to perpetuate that lie and further their political agenda.
So, when you ask people to “draw their own conclusion” based on some whacked out premise, what conclusion would they come to?
We kind have to be really careful what kind of premise we accept, lest we get corralled into a CONCLUSION orchestrated by the unscrupulous. For an apt example, think WMD.
John Kennedy:
@Chan I used the title ?Curse of the Olympic mascots? because this is the kind of language that Chinese netizens now drawing a connection between what each of the Fuwas represent and a corresponding coincidental major tragedy themselves are using. Ie., these and these search results.
=====================================================================
i’m afraid you are wrong. i am in China recently and i think some Chinese people do know about this “Fuwa story”. but nobody, at least the persons i know, believe in it. i dun think there exists anything that can destroy the Chinese people’s faith and love toward their country.
@Chan: I fully agree what you said.
Hey Kennedy,
I just send in a reply to Sonagi about Falun Gong. It is not getting posted. Could you check to see what happen to it?
Are anybody else having this kind of problems with posting comments?
Hello Jesse Owen,
I think my response to you is very well polite. you still keeping saying that I am insulting people with my different point of view ?
Anyway, I will try find a way to express myself to suit all the taste of all people here, but I know it is very difficult for me. Thanks for your advise, I am conscious enough to express myself.
My friends around me always like my choice of taste. If you are close with me , you would propbably like me very much also. ;-0
Kain,
Recently my mailbox full of spam mail.
My computer was infected by viruses yesterday.now, i am using my laptop
The Spirit of Olympic
Olympic flame
The Olympic flame is “The light of knowledge, life and spirit and symbolises the handing down from generation to generation”. The Olympic flame, which symbolises the endeavor to perfection and struggle for victory, was first introduced to the Olympic Games in Amsterdam in 1928. The first Olympic Torch Relay was organised and run in Berlin in 1936.
Originally the suggestion of the Germans, Theodore Lewald, a torch is lit at Olympia in Greece, the home of the Ancient Olympics, and then carried by relay to the host city. The last runner, carrying the torch, runs into the main stadium at the time of the Opening Ceremony. The Olympic flame is then lit and allowed to burn throughout the Games until it is extinguished during the Closing Ceremony.
Olympic Motto
The Olympic motto Citius, Altius, Fortius, expresses the message which the IOC addresses to all who belong to the Olympic Movement, inviting them to excel in accordance with the Olympic spirit.
Citius, Altius, Fortius, which is Latin for faster, higher, stronger, was devised by a teacher friend of de Coubertin, a Dominican monk, Father Henri Didon.
The aims of the Olympic Movement area:
To promote the development of those physical and moral qualities which are the basis of sport
To educate young people through sport in a spirit of better understanding between each other, and of friendship, thereby helping to build a better and more peaceful world
To spread the Olympic principles throughout the world, thereby creating international goodwill
To bring together athletes of the world in the great four-yearly sports festival, the Olympic Games.
One of the major aims of the Olympism is “to improve the human race, not only physically, but to give it a greater nobility of spirit, and to strengthen understanding and friendship amongst peoples.”
Does China have human-rights abuse? I am sure there is, but to what degree? how much proof do we have? jailing and torturing of terrorists. . .
Does USA have human-rights abuse? I am sure there is, but to what degree? how much proof do we have? jailing and torturing terrorist suspects outside USA? do not tell me that you are 100% sure there’s no abuse of human-rights going on in Iraq.
Are USA and CHINA the only countries that violate human-rights, of course not. There are many others.
We are NOT against the idea of exposing human-rights abused by organizations/governments.
My point is if you are going to have an open and honest discussion about human rights, then touch on all topics, not just China. Do not pretend that human-rights violation only exists in China, and no where else.
Al, an example of your #84 comment is not offensive at all to anyone. True, all mankind, expecially the powerful ones (USA, CHINA, RUSSIA) that have already gone to outer space, should work together together toward a better preservation of earth such as addressing pollution, waste management etc. We all have responsibilities as children of mother earth. We should STOP pointing fingers and act as mentors for the developing countries. USA is the most powerful country in the world, and I hate to admit it China is still a fast developing country, so it would nice if USA stop pointing finger and start addressing in a fair fashion and mentoring China on environmental and scientific issues that we all truly care about.
Jesse Owen,
Do not worry about other’s manners. When there is genuine goodwill toward the forum discussion, you will receive genuine manners. “What comes around goes around” For the time being most of us are having fun. Hey I am young just finish college, life is short, I need to have fun before I attend master education in the com