When the Olympic torch relay approaches China, Mo Yang saw how the “protection” for this torch relay provided by oversea Chinese hurts China.
这次奥运火炬全球传递基本上是被中国的海外愤青给搞砸了[…]。圣火传递开始阶段，在伦敦和巴黎藏独分子出来破坏，抢夺火炬，阻挠传递的进行。这个时候，理亏的是藏独分子。[…]如果我们能够保持冷静，采取克制[…]，继续按部就班地进行传递接力，把藏独破坏问题完全交给各国警察来处理，那么，[…]各国人民会说：“噢，看来，中国人确实是一心一意要办 好奥运会的，确实是把体育和政治分开的。”[…]但是，不知从哪里跳出来一大堆海外“爱国华人”，[…]反而给中国的形象带来了负面影响。
This torch relay around the world was sabotaged by those “patriotic” oversea Chinese. In the beginning when the torch was relayed in London and Paris, the people supporting Tibet tried to get the torch and stop the relay. At that time, those people did not have good excuse for what they did.[…] If we could keep calm, be composed, […] and let the relay be what it should be—let the police in other countries take care of those protestants–people all over the world would say, “well, we can see Chinese really want to hold a successful Olympic Game, and they do not mix athletics and politics together.”[…] However, these “patriotic Chinese” in other countries showed up out of no where,[…] and they brought negative influence to China's image.
Wan-Er-Bu-Liou-Mang-Gan-Ga analyzed why there are so many angry “patriots”:
这段时间的一系列事件，为什么会激起中国那么多人的愤怒？固然，事件本身没办法不让我们愤怒。但我总觉得这里面有不少是盲目，是被煽动起来的，或者有些愤怒只是冲着事件的本身，而忽略了探析事件背后的一系列复杂的原因。简洁点说：因为我们以往的印象中国是和谐的，是他国的形象中是美好的，当这突如其来的一系列事件，让我们知道其实并不是完美的，形成了巨大的心理落差，愤怒的声音愈加得强烈。
Why do events occurred these days make so many Chinese angry? Well, the events do make us angry. However, I feel there is blindness in the anger, which is stirred up. On the other hand, the anger only points at these events but ignores the complicate background behind these events. Let me put it simple: Our impression of China is harmonic, and we think foreigners have good impression on us. When these events occurred, we found not everything is as perfect as we think, and this cognitive conflict makes our anger more furious.
On the other hand, Hua-Bin Jing argued if doing these anti-boycott activities is patriotic, not everyone can be this kind of patriotic:
有网友说‘既为奥运会捐款，还为海外势力抵制奥运会而大声疾呼；这样的人不爱国，难道是那些无动于衷的人爱国’。
Some people said, ‘if a person donates money to the Olympic Game in Beijing and confronts the boycott to the Olympic game in other countries, how can we say this person is not patriotic? Would you say the people who do not care patriotic?'
如此说来，腐败分子的确比我们下岗人员爱国；因为我们下岗人既没有钱捐，也没有时间来参加活动。是啊！我们机关事业单位的人参加游行抗议，国家还给他们钱；而我们下岗人员参加游行抗议，却不知谁给我们工资。
If this is how we define a patriot, those corrupt people are more patriotic than us, who are laid off. We do not have money to donate, and we do not have time to join these activities. Well, the government paid people working in institutions money if they joined these protests, but we do not know who would pay us if we joined these protests.
腐败分子，是指那些贪污受贿、生活腐化、以权谋私、侵吞国家或集体财产等的人。
Corrupt people means people who are corrupt in the government and in their own lives. They embezzle the money of our country, which is we people's property.
同样是祖国的儿女，也有亲疏贵贱之分；看我们的高管，[…]年薪6000多万。而老百姓[…]收入也不到他的六千分之一；也就是说 我们的高管一年，相当于老百姓的6000年。祖国这样爱他们，他们能不爱国吗；因为他们并不是公平竞争的结果，[…]你比他们能力强，祖国只爱他们而不爱你；你有什么办法呢。
We are all sons and daughters of our country, but we are treated differently. Look at the elite:[…] their salary is more than sixty millions RMB. However, the average salary of us is less than their 1/6000. In other words, an year for them is 6000 years for a common person. Our country loves them so much, so how can they not love this country?–They become elite not from fair competition.[…] Maybe your ability is better than theirs, but the country still loves them more. What can you do?
这爱国是遗传的，下岗人员没有能力爱国；他们的子女同样也没有能力爱国。看我们的下岗人员的子女，不是因为没有钱上大学而过早地为生活奔波；就是因为贷款读书而背包袱。
As a result, patriotism is inherited. We people without job cannot be patriotic, and our children are not able to be, either. Look at our children, they either work when they are very young because they do not have money to attend colleges or live very hard because of the loan.
Da-Da-De-You discussed how to define the target for patriotism,
如果国只是民族的、文化的概念，则腐败分子是不爱国的，它们只是卖国贼。如果“国”即政权，当然，它们就是最爱国的一群人，因为正是这样的国给了它们腐败的机会。
If the target is ethnicity- or culture-based concept, those corrupt people are not patriotic. Instead, they sell our country. If the target is the government, the ruling party, of course, they are the most patriotic, because this government gives them opportunity to be corrupt.
Feng-Yen-Feng-You said those “patriots” oversea are traitors:
那些闹得最欢的海外”爱国人士”，[…]他们真要爱国，就应该废掉他们洋国公民身份，撕碎绿卡，回国来。按他们爱国的标准，他们中有的人是双重的背叛：先是背叛了生养他的祖国，投奔了被他们所视为的”敌国”；然后又背叛了他们所属的洋国，声称爱他们所属的洋国的”敌国”。
Those oversea “patriots” acted too furious.[…] If they really love our country, they should void their identity as foreigners, rip their green cards, and come back China. Based on their standard of patriotism, some of them are traitors to two countries: they betrayed their motherland to be citizens in a country they viewed as “enemy,” and they betray those countries and claim they belong to the “enemy” of those countries.
Touch123456 also argued what a patriot should do,
反腐败才是真正的爱国, 因为他们这群混蛋正在从人民身上喝血。
Anti-corrupt is what a patriot should do, because those corrupt assholes are sucking our blood.
You-Ren Li said the correct way to patriotism is to study the history and to find a way to build a new country.
作为一个爱国青年，要知道怎么爱国，首要的便是了解这个国家的历史。[…]知道历史的细节，便明了这个国家真正需要个体做的是什么。 […]“五四”的传统不是“破坏”，而是反省之后重建，反省历史，反省传统，创造一个经济、制度、文化、科技、人性上都崭新的国家。
Being a young patriot, the first thing we should do is studying this country's history if we want to know how to be patriotic.[…] If we know history, we know what we really need to do for this country.[…] The tradition of
May Fourth Movement is not to destroy but to create after reflection. Reflecting the history and tradition, and we can build a new country, economically, systematically, culturally, technologically, and humanistically.
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subjectivelistener:
I really really hate when people like you say “oh you don’t understand Chinese culture”. How do you know I don’t understand? What makes you think you understand? You think I live under some rock and learn everything from watching the cable news and reading some chicken bones?
I won’t make assumptions about what you do or do not know since I do not know what you do or do not know. But I do know what I know, and I know that have talked to many many chinese students, ones who have gone abroad and come back, and who have gone abroad and stayed there, and all other types as well, so I think I am pretty sure about my claims from my personal experience.
One’s homeland is always in the back of one’s mind, but however much it would be easy, you cannot paint all Chinese with the same brush. I have many friends who violently want to go abroad and stay there, and many who are fine with being in China, and only go abroad to get experience to put on their resume to make more money when they come back. (I am sure I have many ‘friends’ who just want to use me to practice their English, but that’s another story).
My point was that, of course a lot of this is influenced by the party, using Chinese students studying abroad to influnece the internal affairs of another country. That’s the logical thing for them to do, and it’s probably only fair for China to start playing by the USA’s rules. But then, who wants there to be two USAs?
Also, I think we should ignore this “democracy” nonsense. May be all that people want is some control in their life, some say in what happens. If Chinese don’t then you should get up and support the party, but make sure you know the difference between supporting China and supporting the communist party, they are certainly different things. If you’re waving the red flag with 5 stars, who does that really support?
Olympics as non-political?!?! Who decided that?
Isn’t showing how wonderful and developed and modern and polite China has become and how great the CPC is a political event?
And if it’s not political then how come the team from Taiwan is forbidden from using the Republic of China flag and has to call itself “China-Taipei”? And not just at the olympics! I remember an event at a swimming competition in Thailand, the team from Taiwan won and when they were getting the medal the team from mainland China came over and took their national flag from them! That is certainly political!
The U.S., UK, France, Germany, and Canada grossly
violate the whole people (the 56 minorities and Han) living in China’s human rights by sabotaging our first chance to host the Olympics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Our freedom to express ourselves to the world is sabotaged, muted by CNN/BBC, how can they (countries mentioned above) fight for tibetan’s and Chinese freedom of expression in China when they take away 1.6 billion people’s freedom of expression worldwide??????????????????????????????????
Americans should run the human rights torch through Iraq, and see what happens!!!!
@Jesse
-> If you’re waving the red flag with 5 stars, who does that really support?
China…which happens to be ruled by the CCP. I do not like the CCP; but I support China and her right of territorial integrity. You still don’t get…or refuse to believe that people can show support for this olympics, against the free Tibet movement, and not like the CCP a bit.
-> Isn’t showing how wonderful and developed and modern and polite China has become and how great the CPC is a political event?
The first part no….second part yes; but I do not think the slogan has one world, one dream, one CCP in it? ;) Of course, the ruling government inherently gets credited for holding a sucessful game, but I think the more political thing this year is people trying to ruin the experience for Chinese citizens with no political asperations to show up the Chinese government with no regards to the general Chinese populace of which they claim they undstand and speak for.
-> I really really hate when people like you say “oh you don’t understand Chinese culture”.
Well, you are going to hear it again…You may think you understand but you still don’t understand.
Kneecap:
Again, I can’t speak on how the “Pro-China” protests were organized in Korea and Japan. But for the Chinese students that were at the SF torch relay on the 9th, their trips were organized by various student organizations. Transportation to SF for most was organized independently, and some, due their lack of familiarity with the local transportation system, were organized with the help of the Chinese consulate. Almost all had to out their own pockets the transportation fees, ~ $100 (us).
Of course, this kind of detail is omitted in the news media. What gets reported is along similar manner as the following from the San Francisco Chronicle: “Many of the pro-torch demonstrators carried red Chinese flags and said they were bused in by the Chinese Consulate and other pro-China groups, though others said they had come of their own accord.” This kind of reporting, although technically accurate, is quite misleading in their wording and omission of details.
Naturally, the responses that we see with this kind of reporting are stuff like, “All paid for by the Chinese government?” To comments that reflect outright racial hatred and hysteria: “I can’t believe they bused in Ch*nks!” “Bomb China!” “If the US and China ever come in to conflict, we got to keep an eye on /[round up] the Chinese over here.” And the ever popular: “Ch*nks go home!” Or the milder version, “If they don’t like it here in the US, then leave.”
All these comments were snippets culled from the SF chronicle website (SFgate.com) around the 9th of April. At one point, of the more 3000 comments at posted on the 9th, a good size chunk had to be removed because of their racial nature. It is kind of funny that now there are tons of posted comments that are responses to “Phantom Posts”.
So, Kneecap, you kind of have to rethink who is getting led around by their noses, the Chinese by their government or us by our own media and our ignorance.
Also, I hope you know that some of the scuffles in Canberra and Nagano were started by racial slurs like the ones above (of course with their own local flavor).
As for the 3000 – 5000 people that showed on the 26th to protest CNN, the vast majority were locals.
Best
Kain
Jesse:
Again you have to be careful about presenting a false dichotomy.
People that waving Red flags are not necessary Pro-Chinese Government or anti-democracy. It may simply represent their modern national identity. If the nationalist were still in charge, I will bet you they will probably be swinging the nationalist’s flag. Or if their national flag is a pizza, they probaly be swinging a pizza on a stick.
Best
Kain
“The argument by China about the North Korean refugee is that (if I remember correctly) there is a difference between political refugees and economic refugees. The economic refugees will be sent back to China. In reality, if all the refugees from North Korea will be sent to South, assuming, I am not sure whether South Korea will agree. Secondly, that will INDUCE a refugee wave from North Korea. It is not benefitial to China’s interest. Why should China do that? “
China signed the agreement. China is responsible for upholding it. In the past ten years, Korea was controlled by a leftist government that ignored the plight of North Korean refugees in order not to upset North Korea. However, the new president is quite conservative, and the Korean media has become more critical of North Korea. Not all the refugees want to go to South Korea. Some want to go to the US instead, and already a few have gone either from South Korea or from another country. If China allows the refugees to leave, that will not create a flood because it is still very, very, very hard to leave North Korea. As for the difference between political and economic refugees, ALL North Korean refugees qualify as political refugees because there is a real possibility of persecution upon return, a key qualification in the UN definition. They may leave because they’re hungry, but if they’re returned, they’ll end up in a concentration camp if they’re lucky, shot or hanged if they’re not. I’ve not heard of the PRC recognizing a single North Korean refugee. All of the North Koreans who’ve left either escaped to another country or managed to get inside an embassy.
At least you are debating the issue logically, subjectivelistener, unlike Wei, who wrote:
My personal belief is that Olympics events should not be a stage for any political issue; but if people chose to make that a political stage, no violence should be used. This applies to both sides.
Now before you say NK refugees are not political, let me remind you that there are 2 land borders to NK; why do we not hear more pressure to open up the southern border and why SK has not opened any NK refugee camps? Why is there not any international outcry?
That is your personal belief, but in Korea, the US, and elsewhere demonstrators enjoy constitutional protections for freedom of speech and expression. Most of the violence was from Chinese students. Photos and videos on international and Chinese websites bear this out. There are plenty of images of Chinese hitting and kicking Koreans and foreigners, but none of a Chinese being attacked. There is only a photo of a man holding a bicycle over his head (but not actually hitting anyone, that is just an unsubstantiated rumor) and a photo of a Chinese student holding tissues to his head.
As for North Koreans fleeing across the north-south border, also known as the DMZ, a few do. Recently, an army officer came across. However, this border crossing is much more dangerous than getting over the Tumen or Yalu Rivers, for the DMZ is the most heavily fortified border in the world.
Even if you support your government’s policy of repatriating North Korean refugees, at least recognize why others disagree and advocate for these desperate people. The plight of North Korean refugees and China’s refusal to honor the UN agreement is not an internal affair. It is an international issue; criticism of China’s handling of the refugees is not anti-Chinese any more than criticizing the US invasion of Iraq is anti-American.
@my_mother
I was at the SF rally.
I am out 8 hours of PTO :)
Thank you for writing something I don’t have the time to write.
I agree with My_mother,
It brings out the true ugly face of some westerners who insisted that they cared for Chinese and tibetans. Well finally their racial slurs released the Nazi nature beast that hide within their evil souls!!!!
“If you do not do as we say, you will be met with reprisals!” NAZI decendents!!!!!