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The state-run Xinhua news agency reported Friday that “in view of the requests repeatedly made by the Dalai side for resuming talks, the relevant department of the central government will have contact and consultation with Dalai private representative in the coming days.”
The report which was promptly copied by China's portal websites provoked another new round of discussion and controversy on Dalai Lama among the Chinese netizens.
In Sohu.com, within a few hours more than 8000 people have made comments on the news:
作者:江西省网友
发表于:2008-04-25 16:17:19
拿出点骨气来！！要谈也到奥运后，这个时候偏不理睬他！！！
Author:netizen from Jiangxi Province
Posted on:2008-04-25 16:17:19
Stand up for yourself a bit！！Put off the talk until the end of the Olympics, if at all. Just ignore him at present！！！
作者:北京市网友
发表于:2008-04-25 17:50:18
可以对话,主权问题绝不容妥协!!!
Author:netizen from Beijing
Posted on:2008-04-25 17:50:18
It's OK to hold a dialog, but never compromise on the issues concerning state sovereignty!!!
作者:深圳市网友
发表于:2008-04-25 18:16:31
支持谈,都是中国人,当然可以谈.只要在我们的原则在,他们可以来道歉.承认错误,可以给他们个机会.
Author:netizen from Shenzhen
Posted on:2008-04-25 18:16:31
Support for the dialog. Because we are all Chinese, we can certainly have a talk with each other. On the premise of our principle, we can give them a chance to apologize and admit their error.
作者:温州市网友
发表于:2008-04-25 18:29:56
维护统一，反对对话，反对妥协，反对让步，坚决打击达赖集团
Author:netizen from Wenzhou
Posted on:2008-04-25 18:29:56
Safeguarding unity, opposing dialog, opposing compromise, opposing concessions, the Dalai Clique should be resolutely cracked down.
作者:常德市网友
发表于:2008-04-25 19:42:55
沟通可以，磋商也行，但只能在祖国的土地上。
Author:netizen from Changde
Posted on:2008-04-25 19:42:55
It's OK to have a talk or consultation with him, but it can only take place on the motherland.
作者:北京市网友
发表于:2008-04-25 21:47:54
向巴平措回忆2002年接待达赖代表说道：至于我们同达赖谈什么，主权问题不容谈，这是铁板钉钉的；人权问题，达赖没有资格谈。达赖主政的时候，西藏人权是个什么样子，大家都清楚。要谈，就谈达赖的前途，这是我个人的看法。
支持支持支持支持支持支持！！！！！！
Author:netizen from Beijing
Posted on:2008-04-25 21:47:54
When Qiangba Puncog recalled the moment that he met Dalai's representative in 2002, he said: as to what we would talk with Dalai, it's clear that the question of sovereignty is not open to discussion. Dalai has no right to talk about human rights. The human rights situation in Tibet under Dalai's rule is apparent to everyone. My personal opinion is if there is a dialog, the only topic is Dalai's future.
Support！Support！ Support！ Support！ Support！ Support！
作者:唐山市网友
发表于:2008-04-25 22:13:06
对话总比对抗强！希望双方都进一步妥协，49年了，亲兄弟有什么隔阂也应坐下心平气和的对话，希望达赖喇嘛尽早重返拉萨。全国名族大团结万岁！
Author:netizen from Tangshan
Posted on:2008-04-25 22:13:06
Dialog is always better than confrontation! Hope the both sides can further compromise with each other. It has been 49 years and no matter how serious the estrangement is, brothers must sit down and have a calm and sensible talk. Hope Dalai Lama can return Lhasa as soon as possible. Long live the great unity of the Chinese nation！
作者:美国网友
发表于:2008-04-25 22:58:52
对话是解决问题的最佳途径，对少数民族我们更要放下身段好好谈一谈，这样就有利于民族和解。达赖公开宣称自己是中国人，而且告诉藏人要以北京奥运为荣，我们至少要肯定他这一点。与达赖对话是中央政府成熟、明智、自信的表现。
肖吾省
Author:netizen from US
Posted on:2008-04-25 22:58:52
Dialog is the best way to solve problems. For the promotion of National Reconciliation, we must get off our high horse so as to have a good talk with the minority people. Dalai has openly proclaimed he is a Chinese and told the Tibetans to take pride in Beijing Olympics, so we should at least approve him at this point. Talking with Dalai shows the maturity, wisdom and confidence of the central government.
Xiao Wuxing
作者:西安市网友
发表于:2008-04-25 22:59:56
政府这样做是对的!一味的强硬态度对双方都不好.毕竟藏族是个几乎全民信教的民族,而达籁拉嘛又是众多信众的精神领袖.在维护国家统一,主权完整,废除奴隶制,保持社会安定,保护和发展民生福祉的前提下,听取不同的声音和要求,是负责任政府的表现.
不论是什么民族,不论是什么人,只要是认同中华大家庭,我们就要想法子去争取他!
祝中华民族和睦团结!祝中央之国早日一统!
Author:netizen from Xian
Posted on:2008-04-25 22:59:56
It's right for the government to do so! A rigid attitude benefits neither side; After all, Tibetans are mainly religious people and Dalai Lama is the spiritual leader of most of them. On the premise of national unity, sovereignty integrity, abolition of slavery, social stability and preservation and development of people's livelihood, it's responsible for the government to listen to the different voices and demands.
No matter which people, no matter who, as long as he identify with multi-ethnic family of China, we will try to win him over!
Wish the Chinese nation fraternal unity！Wish that the complete reunification of China can be achieved at an early date!
作者:无锡市网友
发表于:2008-04-26 07:58:34
谈不妥的，我可以断定，达赖是不会放弃自己的立场的。打达赖就得像打狗一样，把他打得摇尾怜。
Author:netizen from Wuxi
Posted on:2008-04-26 07:58:34
I bet the negotiations will break down, because Dalai will not renounce his stand. We need to beat Dalai like a dog until he grovels before us.
作者:广州市网友
发表于:2008-04-26 08:37:45
这是中央政府在向西方社会妥协，是在向欧美妥协，软弱的中央政府！！！达赖必须承认一个中国，不分裂才能谈！
Author:netizen from Guangzhou
Posted on:2008-04-26 08:37:45
The central government is appearing to bend to the western world; it's a concession to Europe and America; how weak the central government is！！！Dalai must firstly acknowledge the One-China Principle and stop activities to split motherland before the talk.
作者:加拿大网友
发表于:2008-04-26 08:39:33
一直不知道达赖是什么想法？他的政治主张是什么？中央政府应该让人民知道。分裂祖国是不得人心的，政治清明我们也关注！
Author:netizen from Canada
Posted on:2008-04-26 08:39:33
People don't know Dalai Lama's views？What are his political opinions? The central government must let people know that. Splitting motherland is unpopular, but we also concern the political probity！
作者:河池市网友
发表于:2008-04-26 08:47:18
达赖已是法国人，反对同其商谈。
Author:netizen from Hechi
Posted on:2008-04-26 08:47:18
Dalai has become French. Oppose talking with him.
作者:淄博市网友
发表于:2008-04-26 08:57:18
与其磋商也要其承担刑事责任，他教唆他的喽罗们杀了那么多人，给国家造成那么大的损失，不能就这么算了。一定要将达赖之流绳之以法。不杀达赖不足以平民愤！
Author:netizen from Zibo
Posted on:2008-04-26 08:57:18
Dalai shall be prosecuted for his criminal liability even we accept to consult with him. He has abetted his underlings to kill so many people, causing such great damage to the state. We can't let it go at that. Fellows like Dalai must be brought to the justice. Dalai has to be executed to assuage the people's anger!
Netease blogger Zhi Kuanyou also gave an immediate response to the unexpected news:
今晚我注意到了一条消息：
中央政府有关部门准备同达赖方面磋商。更让我纳闷的是，在网易发布这条消息的时候，竟然一条网语的评语都没有，看来是没有勇气面对全国的国民呀。在此之前，我们的中央政府把达赖批得体无完肤，魔鬼一个，引得我们可爱的国民喊杀一片。现在我们的中央政府却要和达赖磋商了，太让人哭笑不得了。
更为客气的是，前些时候我写有关达赖的短文不得不用DL来代替达赖，否则我的博客根本通不过网络警察的审查，其实我也就完整地转述达赖近期在国外对媒体发表的看法，就是这样也很不容易通过审查呀。
我们老是说西方媒体的不公正给中国人民造成了伤害，试问我们的媒体又给达赖多少公正呢？
可喜的是，中国政府正朝着正确的方向了望了。
This evening I noticed a piece of news:
The relevant department of the central government will have contact and consultation with Dalai side.
.
What made me disconsolate was when Netease published the report, not a comment was visible after the news. It looks the government doesn't have courage to face the whole nation. Before that, our central government had criticized Dalai to shreds and devil, provoking a tide of battle-cry against him from our lovely people. Now our central government is going to consult with Dalai. It's really ironic.
.
Earlier, what annoyed me more was I had to use DL instead of Dailai when I wrote something about him, otherwise my blog would not pass the Internet police's censorship at all. In fact, I just completely retold some of Dalai's recent airing views in the foreign media, but even so, it's still very difficult to pass the censorship.
.
We always keep criticizing the western media's injustice which has harmed Chinese people, but how much justice have our media given Dalai?
.
The good thing is Chinese government is heading in the right direction.
Eugene,
Do you consider Iragi War justified? This war is so contemporary and grossly Wrong, I can not evn find comparison in the history of Mankind.
On the other hand, Tibet has been part of China for the past 700 years, even before Columbus set foot on North America? How far back do we have to go to show you that Tibet is legitmently part of China. Please check the brief objective history of Tibet on http://www.nytimes.com.
here is a post from ireport.com and I just want you to understand the 1.3 billion Chinese’ point of view (we do not think we are victim of the west yet history is there to show the background of our sentiment):
When We were called Sick man of Asia, We were called The Peril.
When We are billed to be the next Superpower, We are called The threat.
When We were closed our doors, You smuggled Drugs to Open Markets.
When We Embrace Freed Trade, You blame us for Taking away your jobs.
When We were falling apart, You marched in your troops and wanted your “fair share”.
When We were putting the broken peices together again, “Free Tibet” you screamed, “it was an invasion!”
( When Woodrow Wilson Couldn’t give back Birth Place of Confucius back to Us, But He did bought a ticket for the Famine Relief Ball for
us.)
So, We Tried Communism, You hated us for being Communists
When We embrace Capitalism, You hate us for being Capitalist.
When We have a Billion People, you said we were destroying the planet.
When We are tried limited our numbers, you said It was human rights abuse.
When We were Poor, You think we are dogs.
When We Loan you cash, You blame us for your debts.
When We build our industries, You called us Polluters.
When we sell you goods, You blame us for global warming.
When We buy oil, You called that exploitation and Genocide.
When You fight for oil, You called that Liberation.
When We were lost in Chaos and rampage, You wanted Rules of Law for us.
When We uphold law and order against Violence, You called that Violating Human Rights.
When We were silent, You said you want us to have Free Speech.
When We were silent no more, You say we were Brainwashed- Xenophoics.
Why do you hate us so much? We asked.
“No,” You Answered, “We don’t hate You.”
We don’t Hate You either,
But Do you understand us?
“Of course We do,” You said,
“We have AFP, CNN and BBCs…”
What do you really want from us?
Think Hard first, then Answer…
Because you only get so many chances,
Enough is Enough, Enough Hypocrisy for this one world.
We want One World, One Dream, And Peace On Earth.
This Big Blue Earth is Big Enough for all of Us.
Knights:
“UR Chinese friend says it well.
I am not against China to talk with Dalai. If he cares about tibetans, he should think for their best interest to learn mandarin and go toward modernization. We Chinese come to the U.S., we have to learn to speak English in order to make a good living. It applies to tibetans as well.”
Its Chinese who occupied and come to Tibet not Tibetans come to China. You should not lie in broad day light. So instead of Chinese in Tibet should learn Tibetan.
Mandarin is not essential to modernize Tibet. The so called talk by Beijing is to buy time for Olympic. Chinese have never been sincere as the talks haven been going on since 1979 since Deng Xiopeng came to power.
But nothing came as a result. Chinese believe after the death of Dalai Lama Tibet issue disappear. So Beijing is playing a waiting and delaying tactics.
Kain
Great, when can we do the handover?
No seriously. When did I say I don’t think you are capable? So get going: address their grievances.
Just remember to ask them what their grievances are, otherwise you might get a slight tinge of ego/ethnocentrism all over your new red shirt.
cerebus,
From your latest reply, it seems that you are not as thick headed as from your previos post where you outlined the Tibet-independence directives.
However, from your own “life” story about South Africa, it reads to me that you are just as naive and simple minded about the whole Tibet-China issue and about Chinese people in general. China is NOT South Africa. The government has never brainwashed people about racial segregation. Some people are racist regardless what kind of government that his/her country has. I worked for a South African for 5 years. I can say he “terrorized” me for that 5 years, day-to-day comments like “Chinese are just pigs” don’t even begin to describe the shit he spewed out. And he also fought against apartheid. Him, being a white male, would been thought as progressive, but he was the biggest sexist and racist I have ever met, believe I have lived all around in US (the south, SF, LA, NY, etc.) and also Canada.
I can go on and on about it, but my point is that a small number of people from a certain country/culture doesn’t represent the whole. In the same token, many Chinese people don’t believe that the exiled Tibetan government and Dalai represent Tibet either. Dalai hasn’t been to Tibet since 1959. It’s not he wasn’t given a chance to go back, he refused in the 80s to pursue his independence agenda. I say he’s French now, it was intended as being funny, he was awarded a Parisan honorary citizenship just last week.
On one hand you say Chinese people are good people, but one the hand you say we are stupid because we love our country and are in favor of the CCP. It seems strange to me and everyone Chinese that you, and the rest of you out there, think that the Chinese government is not legitimate. If it’s not legitimate, it would have been gone already like all the previous emperors and republic figure heads (pre 1940s). Somehow this government is just a group of very skilled manipulators to can efficiently control a population of 1.3 billion? No human beings can do that, no matter how skilled you are. Think about this before you say things like “I am not against you, only against your government”. You think the CCP is not going to be there if China were democratic?
Please don’t even bother bringing Sweden or Switzerland into the whole discussion. It’s just absurd.
Dalai is not asking for independence, not in public anyways. He’s instead asking for a Greater Tibet which not only includes the current TAR area and its surrounding 4 other provinces. According to his plan, the Greater Tibet will contain ~5 million Tibetans and ~50 million non-Tibetans. When asked what he had in mind for the 90% who are not Tibetan, he said “they should leave”. We are not talking about people who were “moved in” by CCP in the past 50 years, these are the people whose families have been living in the “greater tibet” for hundreds and hundreds of years. This is the real apartheid. I don’t know much about South Africa, but may it’s similar. You are supporting this cause, think about it. Read and watch Dalai’s interviews, see through the “I love peace, I love earth” slogans (btw, who can say no to that!).
Please stop recommending your solutions to Chinese people. Where were you during the cultural revolution when millions of Chinese died of starvation? When we finally have enough to eat, and may have become a piece of tasty meat, you are here to take a bite.
I don’t pretend I understand much about South Africa even though I know a few of you (not just my ex-boss). So please don’t pretend you know China and Chinese people just because you know “some” Chinese.
I look forward to your replies.
A few things for you guys to think about. If it is an issue about human rights, I am all for it. However, if it is an issue about territorial sovereignty, it’s simply a nonstarter.
Just think about the stuff below.
http://www.boycottabsolut.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDUdFKpH8gM
http://www.youtube.com/swf/l.swf?video_id=0Oi7JEObPVA
cerebus,
I read your post again and want to respond to several points that you made:
1) “do you believe all the monks and civilians who took part in the March 14 riots should simply be removed from society and be punished? ”
I think those who burned, beat, hurt, and even killed people on that day should be severely punished. One 5-month old baby and his parents were burned alive, and many more. It doesn’t matter whether they are monks or not. Who exempted monks for answering for their crimes? They will not be removed from society because once they have been released from prison (or after their life-sentece has been reduced), they will rejoin the society.
Having a religion and being a monority do not give one a free ticket to murder! Don’t tell me that Christians/Jews/muslims/Hinus/etc don’t go to prison when they commit crimes.
2) “What, in short, according to you, are the root causes of those riots? Why are they angry?”
In my opinion, they were angry because they were not happy with their lives. It has nothing to do with religion. If praying can get them more money, they would be doing that instead of rubbing other people. They hate non-Tibetans for making more money, but they don’t think about whether their own unemployment has contributed to them being poor. There are plenty of Tibetans who go to schools and then get jobs, either inside Tibet or elsewhere in China.
I am not denying there is no racial prejudice in China. But in TAR, 95% are Tibetans, for them to claim racism is a bit of overstating reality.
Being a monk means one does not hold a paying job, in other words, an ordinary job. They get a government stipend. Where did the stipend come from? Tax payers, Chinese tax payers. I am not 100% sure, but I don’t think in US the government pays for churchs and preachers.
All in all, like Obama said “when you are bitter, you cling to guns and religion.”
3) “I also know most of them are horribly misinformed about the situation in Tibet (and elsewhere in China) and would feel ashamed if they were presented with the actual accusations by the Tibetans. ”
Chinese people have been misinformed in the sense that they didn’t know Tibetans hated them because they never saw on TV until now that Tibetans knived and burned people alive simple because of hate and jealousy.
I remember my shock when I came to US as a teenage, a Tibetan screamed at me that he wanted to kill Chinese people. I remember how upset I was because as children in China we were taught to “treat minority brothers and sisters with love and compassion”. But now I know better to stay away from them.
If being well-informed means playing up ethnic and racial tensions, I have to say maybe CCP did the right thing.
The accusations made by exiled Tibetans are just accusations, not proven facts. There is a huge difference b/w the two. One day they say 50 killed, next day it was 100, up until today it was 150, then today is 200, 203. Where do they get the numbers? You should watch the video where the spokesperson for the exiled government explains how they got the number. It’s basically whatever they say goes. But judge for yourself whether they have a scientific way of computing the fatality numbers.
I don’t think Chinese will be ashamed with the Chinese government. Everytime the exile Tibetan government explains their “facts”, people laugh at them because you can just tell those people never heard of confirming facts. They are not very well educated, I am sorry to say. It’s not their fault, it’s hard living in India and try to get an education while the Indian national illiteracy rate is about 50%.
4) “You fear admitting one problem, because it might make the whole house of cards come down. It’s painful. I can see this in my Chinese friends: China IS their identity.”
Yes, China is all Chinese’s identity. What’s wrong with that? It doesn’t mean it’s the only dimension in one’s identity. If I walk down the street, people will not see me as a multi-dimension entity, but a Chinese/asian (I don’t mean all asians are chinese).
Yes, there is a problem. It’s with the upper-class exiled Tibetans who dream that they deserve everything because they are from a upper caste. They can’t get this outside Tibet, that’s why they want to return. While they spent all this energy to protest and motivate people to burn and kill, why couldn’t they have use the same energy to get jobs and get an education in the “free” world? Why are they always on the street protesting? Do they work for a living, beside hating China?
According to US-reported news on previously held talks b/w the Chinese government and Dalai’s people, they had always been focused on Dalai’s return to China. Why is that? What is improving Tibetan’s lives tied singly to Dalai’s return to his palaces and his thron? In public, he always talks about “peace, love, compassion”, why in private he only discusses about his own return?
5) “No wonder Tibet- and Taiwan-issues are taken so personally: it’ll be like amputation. ”
Taiwan and Tibet are two completely different issues. With Tibet, we are dealing with an ethnic minority group. With Taiwan, they are mostly Han and Hui and we split from the civil war and their passports still say “Republic of China” (as in acknowleding being Chinese). Let’s not mix apples and oranges.
6) “China is not a poor country anymore: more political myth that supports the government’s international agenda. ”
Poor is relatively to developed country rich. There are millions of Chinese who live below or barely above the poverty line (more if you are using the Western standard). It’s only been 20-30 yrs that China has started to develop its economy, it’s far from any developed countries which took 200+ yrs to get them there.
The government’s agenda is to bring more people out of poverty, go beyond just having enough to eat and a root over our heads. Seriously, having done that for 1.3 billion people in 30 yrs is a tremendously achievement. What other country’s government has done this?
Again, when you say “the government’s agenda”, you are talking about the manipulators who are running the government? You are assuming Chinese people don’t want better lives, they prefer to starve to death.
hey ted; mao sits in heaven and weeps for the revolution that was sold to the capitalists of the world for a few trillion yuan! look at the skyscrapers, condos, and expensive cars in Shanghai and Beijing, then look at the poverty of the outer provinces. it’s a most interesting approach to communism.
my_mother; it may be a nonstarter for some, and nothing may come of it, but i want it recorded for posterity that there are those who wanted it, and spoke out for it, whether or not it happens. and if your’re for human rights then you should be for the right of tibetans to not have their culture destroyed by han capitalists, just in tibet for the yuans they can squeeze from the land and it’s people.
-> So instead of Chinese in Tibet should learn Tibetan
Except Tibet is a part of China like all the other minorities in China, should require to learn Chinese.
Eugene,
I want to agree with you, but I am a bit confused by your comments. Communism or not, the truth is a lot of Chinese people came out poverty and a lot are still in it. I hope more and more people will be able to live more comfortably, not just those in the cities.
On your comment to “my_mother” ;), I am not sure how Hans are squeezing money out Tibetans when Tibetans don’t got none. They are not rich people who can afford to buy stuff or have their money scammed. And I am pretty sure Hans are not interested in Tibetan buddhism which is very different from the traditional buddhism practiced by some Chinese people. I fail to follow your logic.
@ Karze,
hm, why do you care about other’s business so much. If you have so much time and energy, you should focus on your own country eh? help your own country’s problems before you stick your stinky nose in other’s business that is of no concern to you!