As for the niqab, I must confess that there goes my limit…

Remember what the great Arab poet, Khalil Gibran said about modesty in clothing:

“Some of you say, “It is the north wind who has woven the clothes to wear.”
But shame was his loom, and the softening of the sinews was his thread.
And when his work was done he laughed in the forest.
Forget not that modesty is for a shield against the eye of the unclean.
And when the unclean shall be no more, what were modesty but a fetter and a fouling of the mind?”

Of course you are absolutely right that any type of clothing can be “in your face.” I have been very shocked by much of the Western dress I have seen some Moroccan wearing which would be scandalous in the United States.

My only conclusion is that some Moroccans are trying to show that they are “modern,” but are using French tourists’ beach and TV attire to decide what is appropriate dress to go about town, or to work, in!

I think smart people don’t dress as much for THEMSELVES as they LOOK AROUND AT WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE WEARING, AND TRY TO FIT IN. One should dress in order to make others feel COMFORTABLE, NOT “IN YOUR FACE” in ANY form of dress.

Regarding the Hijab and beard, it is not the items themselves PER SE that are “in your face.” It is the WAY THEY ARE WORN that I’m referring to. There are plenty of women in hijab that are dressing appropriately and not “in your face,” but some of those women are being told by the women who are extreme in their dress that they are not being “conservative enough.”

One Moroccan woman I know went to the mosque, and told me she was perfectly appropriately dressed. A woman next to her, who was in black from head to toe, proceeded to criticize her in whispers, telling her she must wear gloves, black socks, etc. My former maid was really into Islamic dress, and had friends who told her she wasn’t conservative enough, and said she had to wear an extra hair band over the forehead, just to keep one wisp of hair from sticking out, for example. The traditional Moroccan dress is a “normal” way of looking in Morocco. All this black stuff from head-to-toe that is coming in from the Gulf countries is really “in your face” as far as I am concerned.

I’d be curious to know what you think about this.

Madame Monet

You may not discriminate yourself, but you certainly condone discrimination. While I tried to show the foolishness of judging a book by its cover, you’re adamant that this is a sound state of affairs, extending your reasoning to bearded men. For my part, I consider wearing the hijab or not wearing the hijab morally equivalent, in so far as I wouldn’t judge a person’s worth as an employee on his/her headgear or beard.

The hijab, “in your face”? Certainly from a French viewpoint, where there is furthermore a long – colonial and post-colonial -story of discrimination against Muslims and a different legal setting than the rest of Europe (not to mention Morocco). But I would submit that any type of clothing, or lack thereof, can be in your face, that most Moroccans living in Morocco would not normally find the hijab particularly “in your face”, and that Moroccans by the way are not there simply for the benefit of tourists, who incidentally travel to Morocco not really expecting to find Las Vegas or Soho (well, at least the decent tourists…).

As for Marjane, not employing hijab-wearing women would reflect more on the prejudices of its management than on any real displeasure from its clientèle. As you may know, there’s a widening gap between the Westernised francophone bourgeoisie and the rest of the country, with the former very much adopting French views and manners.

Finally, I would again stress that if one adopts a neutral point of view, stripped of ideology, wearing or not wearing the hijab should be viewed as a personal choice. There are of course limits – you wouldn’t expect a barmaid, a swimming instructor or a go-go dancer to appear with a hijab – and wearing a hijab or not doesn’t absolve you from your duties as an employee, but basically, the choice should be made by women themselves. Imposing an intruding dresscode topdown merely mirrors what Islamic régimes in Iran or Saudi Arabia do…

Madame Monet

Her reply “La, la! Shemesh.” (no, it’s (because of) the sun) which goes a long way to explain why is it we Middle-Eastern types dress the way we do – for practical purposes. Any survivalist guide will tell you to be covered in the sun, esp. in the desert.

Along the way cultural and religious stamps were placed on top of this common sense; and things are the way they are today – both religious Jews and Muslims cover themselves in public.

Regarding the fact that some perceive a woman wearing a hijab to be dishonest, there are some Moroccans who do think that.

No one thinks that every woman wearing a hijab is dishonest. But many of them are, indeed, hypocrites. Unfortunately, it is the probably few dishonest ones that give a bad name to the many. I’ll just give a few examples.

Many young women take to wearing the hijab for “fashion” reasons, pressure from friends and/or neighbors (especially in poorer neighborhoods, there is pressure from neighbors, and if you don’t wear it the neighbors don’t respect you); and also because some parents give their daughters more leniency to “go out” if they are dressed in a conservative hijab.

Aside from that, a number of young women (our maid is an example) wear a hijab that is a “fashion statement” over tight clothes, makeup, and eyeliner, which more or less defeats the purpose!

Ibn Kafka makes a good point that a worker’s lack of headgear doesn’t make him/her a good worker, any more than wearing a hijab/beard makes her/him a good worker. But employers also have another issue, which is their public presentation. I THINK the reason checkers in hijab are not allowed at Marjane is because Marjane wants to present a “modern” image, especially to foreign tourists. There are other supermarkets which don’t sell alcohol (Askwk Salam, for example, where I understand all the checkers are in hijab. But I’ve only been there once, and it was a long time ago, so I couldn’t be 100 percent certain.) I think an employer DOES have a right to hire people who will represent the company image as the employer desires. Some will choose hijabed employees; some will not. More will not, for these reasons, and the others I have given in my comments above.

Madame Monet

I am not an employer, therefore I do not discriminate among employees. I base my comments above upon many of the comments I’ve heard from others over the years.

Regarding male employees, it’s my understanding that if someone were to apply for work wearing a long beard, the same assumptions would be made. It’s not the praying that is the issue, it’s the “in your face” attitude that some flaunt toward employers that makes employers wary of employing those who would dress as those with the “in your face attitude.” Do you not recall that the taxi drivers were all made to shave off their beards and wear western dress as of a couple years ago? (This does not prohibit them from praying if they want to, but gets rid of the “in your face” impression that some/many were giving to tourists.)

Regarding supermarket checkers, when we buy alcohol, my Moroccan husband refuses to go through the two Marjane lanes that are marked for alcohol. He tells me those are for the people who are buying ONLY alcohol. We are always getting groceries, and he insists on going through the other grocery lines. But none of them have ever told us to go back to the alcohol line. Once or twice when we had groceries, and were going through the alcohol line (because we also had alcohol), those checkers did tell us we should actually be going through the regular grocery lines. Therefore checkers in any line have to handle alcohol. Furthermore, having known someone who has a family member employed at Marjane, I was informed by them that no one wearing a foulard is permitted to be a supermarket checker (but I haven’t gotten a clear answer on the reason for that).

Madame Monet

1- Not all those wearing hijab will pray, or pray on time, while on the other hand you may not be wearing the hijab while still praying on time, as does my wife. So if praying is such an issue, you’d have to address it head on. And one small detail: how do you propose to handle male employees, since only a tiny minority of them tend to wear the hijab?

2- Moroccan employment law gives the employer the right to adopt a “réglement du travail”, or “work regulations”, which may specify workers’ duties as regards pauses and working hours.

3- As for your example with supermarket checkers, you might have noticed that there are specific counters for alcoholic beverages.

4- As for your allegation that female workers in hijab are “more difficult to work around than non-hijab workers”, surely you jest? Workers can be “difficult” or “obedient” from the employer’s perspective quite irrespective of their headgear, wouldn’t you say? Unless the employer really is bothered with the hijab in itself, a strange reaction for a Moroccan to have as most of us have relatives, colleagues or friends wearing it…

What’s all this tale about the veil?
Fred and Gail shout and hail
Straw as hero
For his hail of fire on Aïsha’s attire.
Did Straw want Aïsha to show
Herself from head to toe?
Let Gail wear a mini-skirt
For her flirt.
And let Aïsha wear on her face
Or on her hair
Whatever piece
That would bring her peace
Vis-à-vis God and vis-à-vis Man.
Oh, man!
Why d’you wish her to disclose
Her beautiful eyes and nice nose
Or her lips or her hips
If that belongs to her?
Come on, Sir!
That body you want her to show
Is a diamond dearer than the glow
Of the face of Marilyn Monroe!

I’m a long-term resident of Morocco, having married into the culture. What is lacking from the above discussion is the reason WHY a hijab is a handicap for finding a job, even in Morocco, an Islamic country.

The reason is that employers feel if someone is wearing a hijab, their need to pray during the working day interferes with work. Some employees take up to 45 minutes to prepare for praying, and actually do their prayers (especially for the 4:00 PM-approximate prayers). Also, if one is seriously wearing the hijab, their religious convictions will interfere with their work. For example, if you want to be a supermarket checker, you must accept to touch and handle wine bottles in the checkout aisles, which people wearing hijab often would refuse to do. These are just some of the possible examples.

In factories which do hire workers wearing hijab, they often have shifts, where they stop for 15 minutes, and in that time, workers who wish to can wash and pray. But they only have 15 minutes, and a foreman watching. This way they can’t stretch it out any longer, or make any excuses for why they have to take a much longer time, or say extra repetitions of prayers over the time allowed.

So you can see why banks and other white-collar occupations often do not want to employ workers in hijab–they are more difficult to “work around” than non-hijab workders.

Madame Monet