Comments on: Hong Kong: China's Olympic Opportunity http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/ The world is talking. Are you listening? Wed, 15 Feb 2012 16:57:34 -0500 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Wayne http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/comment-page-2/#comment-1389359 Wayne Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:51:02 +0000 http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/#comment-1389359 Cone on. Whatever slogans the Chinese use to encourage their own people, it for the Chinese to implement. It is not the same as inviting a foreign power to 'monitor' their progress. Martin Lee thinks CHinese are children. So he goes to his big Daddy in Washington to ask that big Daddy white man keep an eye on the 'childish' Chinese. Say if President Bush promises tax-cuts to the American people. Would it be any business of the Chinese government to monitor Bush to ensure he keeps his promises? Of course not. Would Americans run to Hu Jintao and ask them to 'monitor' Bush's performance on this issue. Of course not. And if they did they would rightly be excoriated as traitors. Of course the greatest abuser of human rights in the world today is the USA and Britain. Hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children have been massacred in Iraq and Afghanistan - many more than the several hundred political 'dissidents' in China today. But of course Martin Lee will say nothing about that. So Martin Lee, true to form is just a running dog - a traitor and a lickspittle to the white man. Cone on. Whatever slogans the Chinese use to encourage their own people, it for the Chinese to implement. It is not the same as inviting a foreign power to ‘monitor’ their progress. Martin Lee thinks CHinese are children. So he goes to his big Daddy in Washington to ask that big Daddy white man keep an eye on the ‘childish’ Chinese.

Say if President Bush promises tax-cuts to the American people. Would it be any business of the Chinese government to monitor Bush to ensure he keeps his promises? Of course not. Would Americans run to Hu Jintao and ask them to ‘monitor’ Bush’s performance on this issue. Of course not. And if they did they would rightly be excoriated as traitors.

Of course the greatest abuser of human rights in the world today is the USA and Britain. Hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children have been massacred in Iraq and Afghanistan – many more than the several hundred political ‘dissidents’ in China today.

But of course Martin Lee will say nothing about that. So Martin Lee, true to form is just a running dog – a traitor and a lickspittle to the white man.

]]> By: Blah Blah Blah http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/comment-page-2/#comment-1206445 Blah Blah Blah Thu, 15 Nov 2007 07:43:25 +0000 http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/#comment-1206445 The US of A checking on China? By all means, NO! (I am not Chinese, by the way!) Yankees, Go Home! sounds "truer" today than it did decades ago... But Lee is right in one thing: Any country that makes promises should keep them. If China said, give us the Olympics, we will improve on human rights, or reduce pollution, or whatever, then they should do it -- or not hold the Olympics. BUT, what we should also do and ask for, is that the US of A be held accountable for all the atrocities it commits, that Mr. Bush, and all other moguls in that country, government, etc., be held accountable for the crimes they commit, for the abuses, rapes, bombings, invasions, etc., be it or not in the name of freedom and democracy! Hypocrisy is not punishable by law, but what the US of A does, is. Why are American presidents not taken to War Crimes Tribunals? Who, on earth, elected the US of A as the guardian angel of world freedom and peace? Angel of Death maybe!... I am not for terrorism, but when we condemn the Taliban, religious extremism, and all the rest of the world's problems on the Middle East, or on communist countries, we are just masquerading the big problem: the white man thirst for supremacy! The idea, WRONG idea, that the US of A, and whites, etc., are better and should be the measuring rod for the rest of the world. Well, it ain't so. Maybe we do not like what China does at times, but hack!, I must say, if there is one country in the world today that can make the US of A think twice, even maybe shake a bit and wonder... it is China. Democracy does not exist in China? Neither does it in the US of A; some pale shadow of it, yep, maybe... but not real democracy, not real human rights, not real freedom. I will believe that when I see Mr. Bush trialled for war crimes. But what can we expect of a country that kills his own, when they truly believe in freedom, people like M. L. King Jr., Kennedy, etc. Yeah, I would like to see China clean up (improve, not white wash!) its human rights records, and pollution, etc. but so would I like to see the US of A give up on nuclear arms, mines, pollution, and, yeah, improve on human rights too!... stop bombing other countries, robbing 3rd world countries and fostering poverty, getting moguls such as Wallmart accountable, etc. etc. etc. The list is and will be never ending! The US of A checking on China? By all means, NO! (I am not Chinese, by the way!) Yankees, Go Home! sounds “truer” today than it did decades ago… But Lee is right in one thing: Any country that makes promises should keep them. If China said, give us the Olympics, we will improve on human rights, or reduce pollution, or whatever, then they should do it — or not hold the Olympics. BUT, what we should also do and ask for, is that the US of A be held accountable for all the atrocities it commits, that Mr. Bush, and all other moguls in that country, government, etc., be held accountable for the crimes they commit, for the abuses, rapes, bombings, invasions, etc., be it or not in the name of freedom and democracy! Hypocrisy is not punishable by law, but what the US of A does, is. Why are American presidents not taken to War Crimes Tribunals? Who, on earth, elected the US of A as the guardian angel of world freedom and peace? Angel of Death maybe!… I am not for terrorism, but when we condemn the Taliban, religious extremism, and all the rest of the world’s problems on the Middle East, or on communist countries, we are just masquerading the big problem: the white man thirst for supremacy! The idea, WRONG idea, that the US of A, and whites, etc., are better and should be the measuring rod for the rest of the world. Well, it ain’t so. Maybe we do not like what China does at times, but hack!, I must say, if there is one country in the world today that can make the US of A think twice, even maybe shake a bit and wonder… it is China. Democracy does not exist in China? Neither does it in the US of A; some pale shadow of it, yep, maybe… but not real democracy, not real human rights, not real freedom. I will believe that when I see Mr. Bush trialled for war crimes. But what can we expect of a country that kills his own, when they truly believe in freedom, people like M. L. King Jr., Kennedy, etc. Yeah, I would like to see China clean up (improve, not white wash!) its human rights records, and pollution, etc. but so would I like to see the US of A give up on nuclear arms, mines, pollution, and, yeah, improve on human rights too!… stop bombing other countries, robbing 3rd world countries and fostering poverty, getting moguls such as Wallmart accountable, etc. etc. etc. The list is and will be never ending!

]]> By: leo http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/comment-page-2/#comment-1202781 leo Sun, 04 Nov 2007 06:18:10 +0000 http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/#comment-1202781 It is a terrible democracy proposed by Martin Lee when only he has the " freedom of speech" in pressing his ? mother country through foreign enagement. No matter what mein theme of his Wall Street essay is, he never can deny his own his words that he wants to press China by an external forece. It is only fool cowaard's thought that improvement of western standard human right can only be achieved by external force onto China. It is shameful to see western intervention had caused a complete chao in Iraq when they are trying to bring their western values by force and at same time get their most wanted oil!!! Martin Lee's so called patriotism is a lie to others and himself especially when his doggie subconscciousness is pointed out by real patriotic Chinese.. It is a terrible democracy proposed by Martin Lee when only he has the ” freedom of speech” in pressing his ? mother country through foreign enagement. No matter what mein theme of his Wall Street essay is, he never can deny his own his words that he wants to press China by an external forece. It is only fool cowaard’s thought that improvement of western standard human right can only be achieved by external force onto China. It is shameful to see western
intervention had caused a complete chao in Iraq when they are trying to bring their western values by force and at same time get their most wanted oil!!! Martin Lee’s so called patriotism is a lie to others and himself especially when his doggie subconscciousness is pointed out by real patriotic Chinese..

]]> By: ZIYAN http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/comment-page-2/#comment-1202021 ZIYAN Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:51:27 +0000 http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/#comment-1202021 Yes, Lee is supposedly Chinese. But does he really want to help China? Is he really for democracy? Ask yourself what Lee had done to get democracy from the Hongkong British ruler before June 1997. Anyway his letter amused me more than anything else. Why would anyone think of going to the U.S. to plead for democracy and freedom when that country assassinated democratically-elected leaders of other countries(1973, Chile) and overthrowing democratic country and installing dictator (1953, Iran)? It just tells me that Lee is ignorant and politically naive. Yes, Lee is supposedly Chinese. But does he really want to help China? Is he really for democracy? Ask yourself what Lee had done to get democracy from the Hongkong British ruler before June 1997.

Anyway his letter amused me more than anything else. Why would anyone think of going to the U.S. to plead for democracy and freedom when that country assassinated democratically-elected leaders of other countries(1973, Chile) and overthrowing democratic country and installing dictator (1953, Iran)? It just tells me that Lee is ignorant and politically naive.

]]> By: leo http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/comment-page-2/#comment-1201973 leo Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:46:46 +0000 http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/#comment-1201973 One thing interest me whether "J" is Chinese or American. I am surprise to know people are still thinking the current Chinese government ia s tyranny governemnt. They either are ignorant or they never been to mainland in past five years.I havc the fortune to be Chinese born in HK and living here for decades and it is naive to label HK people as native or mainland Chinese as most of our parent are immigrants in the 60's. Only in the recent years , we have the concept of new immigrants from mainland as the growth of economy of HK has made the new mainland Chinese mostly from lower social class become a disadvantageoius group in HK. There isn't much different about the identification as a Chinese between the new immigrants or old immigrants, there however is a difference between pro-western or patriotic Chinese when seeing the matters about HK. It is a shame to see that the pro-western group typical example of Martin Lee is always seeking foreign intervention of domestic affair of China.They however never have the gut to do something in mainland to show their discontent nor they can confess their pro-western doggie subconsciousness when pointed out by others. I still need God's teaching to learn to tolerate nonsense accuse and smear. One thing interest me whether “J” is Chinese or American. I am surprise to know people are still thinking the current Chinese government ia s tyranny governemnt. They either are ignorant or they never been to mainland in past five years.I havc the fortune to be Chinese born in HK and living here for decades and it is naive to label HK people as native or mainland Chinese as most of our parent are immigrants in the 60′s. Only in the recent years , we have the concept of new immigrants from mainland as the growth of economy of HK has made the new mainland Chinese mostly from lower social class become a disadvantageoius group in HK. There isn’t much different about the identification as a Chinese between the new immigrants or old immigrants, there however is a difference between pro-western or patriotic Chinese when seeing the matters about HK. It is a shame to see that the pro-western group typical example of Martin Lee is always seeking foreign intervention of domestic affair of China.They however never have the gut to do something in mainland to show their discontent nor they can confess their pro-western doggie subconsciousness when pointed out by others. I still need God’s teaching to learn to tolerate nonsense accuse and smear.

]]> By: Jac http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/comment-page-1/#comment-1201917 Jac Tue, 30 Oct 2007 23:52:51 +0000 http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/#comment-1201917 Well, China is Martin's country now and not United States. Just like you said, since Martin cared about the human rights and suffering in China (his own country), he wrote the article to press for the civil/human right improvements in China. Martin obviously does not care about United States, which is not his own country. Through all the online responses, I notice that native Hong Kong people tend to support Martin but mainland Chinese or non-native Hong Kong people (mainland immigrants to Hong Kong or whose parents were mainland immigrants to Hong Kong) tend to defend the Chinese tyranny government. This observation is the exact example reflecting the conflicts of interests between native Hong Kong people and mainland Chinese or non-native Hong Kong people. That's why Hong Kong needs someone like Martin Lee to protect and enact the policy of "one country, two systems" in order to guarantee the freedom of speech that all native Hong Kong people were and are still entitled to. AREN'T mainland Chinese or non-native Hong Kong people entitled to the freedom of speech ?? The answer is again open to interpretation. First, they were not born with such a freedom. If they do know the true meaning of the freedom of speech, why are they still defending the Chinese tyranny government ? If they DO know the meaning, they should be glad that Martin Lee are PRESSING the Chinese tyranny government to grant them the basic human rights (which all Americans and native Hong Kong people have been enjoying since they were born). Well, China is Martin’s country now and not United States. Just like you said, since Martin cared about the human rights and suffering in China (his own country), he wrote the article to press for the civil/human right improvements in China. Martin obviously does not care about United States, which is not his own country.

Through all the online responses, I notice that native Hong Kong people tend to support Martin but mainland Chinese or non-native Hong Kong people (mainland immigrants to Hong Kong or whose parents were mainland immigrants to Hong Kong) tend to defend the Chinese tyranny government. This observation is the exact example reflecting the conflicts of interests between native Hong Kong people and mainland Chinese or non-native Hong Kong people. That’s why Hong Kong needs someone like Martin Lee to protect and enact the policy of “one country, two systems” in order to guarantee the freedom of speech that all native Hong Kong people were and are still entitled to.

AREN’T mainland Chinese or non-native Hong Kong people entitled to the freedom of speech ?? The answer is again open to interpretation. First, they were not born with such a freedom. If they do know the true meaning of the freedom of speech, why are they still defending the Chinese tyranny government ? If they DO know the meaning, they should be glad that Martin Lee are PRESSING the Chinese tyranny government to grant them the basic human rights (which all Americans and native Hong Kong people have been enjoying since they were born).

]]> By: ZIYAN http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/comment-page-1/#comment-1201891 ZIYAN Tue, 30 Oct 2007 19:15:53 +0000 http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/#comment-1201891 Martin Lee's agenda is obvious, based on his past records. But that is irrelevant. Assuming that he sincerely cares about human rights in any country, not just China, then, foremost, he should bring pressure on the country that has caused the most human suffering in Iraq and other countries, the United States. Or maybe the Olympics should forbid the U.S. from participating in the Games. Martin Lee’s agenda is obvious, based on his past records. But that is irrelevant. Assuming that he sincerely cares about human rights in any country, not just China, then, foremost, he should bring pressure on the country that has caused the most human suffering in Iraq and other countries, the United States. Or maybe the Olympics should forbid the U.S. from participating in the Games.

]]> By: Jac http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/comment-page-1/#comment-1201865 Jac Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:25:08 +0000 http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/#comment-1201865 You shouldn't pass your own judgment on people (in the name of God) based on what they said no matter you like it or not. You are just acting like a Taliban. It won't be appreciated. You shouldn’t pass your own judgment on people (in the name of God) based on what they said no matter you like it or not. You are just acting like a Taliban. It won’t be appreciated.

]]> By: leo http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/comment-page-1/#comment-1201850 leo Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:25:04 +0000 http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/#comment-1201850 My lord! Forgive those who lie to people that Martin Lee is not pressing China to change through foreign engagement! Teach us to accept others' radiculous insult with your own example when nailed at the cross! My lord! Forgive those who lie to people that Martin Lee is not pressing China to change through foreign engagement! Teach us to accept others’ radiculous insult with your own example when nailed at the cross!

]]> By: Jac http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/comment-page-1/#comment-1201847 Jac Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:18:36 +0000 http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/#comment-1201847 I am not here to agrue the correct meaning of "press" (the verb) or "direct engagement" in Chinese translation. But I am here to point out that Martin Lee used the words "agenda" and "promises" at the end of paragraph 6 and 7 in the original article. Assume Deputy Mayor Liu Jingmin really had given his words long ago. Then whose agenda is it ? Who made promises before to work on this agenda ? Chinese. Here comes my next question: Does Chinese government need foreign pressure in fulfulling its own promises ? Always, of course as everyone knows. Is Martin Lee inviting foreign intervention ? The answer is open to interpretation. Even if so, it is not a bad thing for Chinese or Hong Kong people. But one thing is sure: Invition for foreign intervention is not the main theme of Martin's article. I am not here to agrue the correct meaning of “press” (the verb) or “direct engagement” in Chinese translation. But I am here to point out that Martin Lee used the words “agenda” and “promises” at the end of paragraph 6 and 7 in the original article. Assume Deputy Mayor Liu Jingmin really had given his words long ago. Then whose agenda is it ? Who made promises before to work on this agenda ? Chinese.

Here comes my next question: Does Chinese government need foreign pressure in fulfulling its own promises ? Always, of course as everyone knows.

Is Martin Lee inviting foreign intervention ? The answer is open to interpretation. Even if so, it is not a bad thing for Chinese or Hong Kong people. But one thing is sure: Invition for foreign intervention is not the main theme of Martin’s article.

]]> By: oiwan http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/comment-page-1/#comment-1201615 oiwan Tue, 30 Oct 2007 02:19:14 +0000 http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/#comment-1201615 another related information: http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/29/china-and-hong-kong-translation-politics/ another related information:
http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/29/china-and-hong-kong-translation-politics/

]]> By: HKer http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/comment-page-1/#comment-1201529 HKer Mon, 29 Oct 2007 17:01:00 +0000 http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/#comment-1201529 hahaha... those who said Lee is inviting external force to intervent China policy via Olympic event... should take HKCEE again, they will probably fail... ROFL hahaha… those who said Lee is inviting external force to intervent China policy via Olympic event… should take HKCEE again, they will probably fail…

ROFL

]]> By: leo http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/comment-page-1/#comment-1201489 leo Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:28:49 +0000 http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/#comment-1201489 One just needs simple logic training before one can see the difference of a drive that comes from oneself using objective target as an encouragement and the call for external pressure to creat a drive by Martin Lee with his pressing for China's change under foreign engagement. It is especially stupid when that external press is that from USA who now has a worldwide poor reputation of foreign policy. Either Martin Lee is brainless or he has special favour of being an American foreign policy adviser. What a sheme to see him as a Hong Kong lawmaker!! One just needs simple logic training before one can see the difference of a drive that comes from oneself using objective target as an encouragement and the call for external pressure to creat a drive by Martin Lee with his pressing for China’s change under foreign engagement. It is especially stupid when that external press is that from USA who now has a worldwide poor reputation of foreign policy. Either Martin Lee is brainless or he has special favour of being an American foreign policy adviser.
What a sheme to see him as a Hong Kong lawmaker!!

]]> By: Leo http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/comment-page-1/#comment-1201416 Leo Mon, 29 Oct 2007 02:28:53 +0000 http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/#comment-1201416 Hello, Your view about Martin Lee is unfounded. The source article by Martin Lee stated that China had pledged to improve human rights as a pre-requisite for hosting the Olympic Games: "By applying for the Olympics, we want to promote not just the city's development, but the development of society, including democracy and human rights," one of China's key Olympic figures, Deputy Mayor Liu Jingmin, told the Washington Post in 2001. Then, Mr. Liu said, "If people have a target like the Olympics to strive for, it will help us establish a more just and harmonious society, a more democratic society, and help integrate China into the world." (Wall Street Journal, Oct 17, 2007) This call for improving human rights is not coming from outside China, from ‘external powers’, but from within China by the Deputy Mayor Liu Jingmin. The real issue here is that Beijing itself has called for an improvement in human rights, and Martin Lee is only encouraging ‘external powers’ to monitor this promise. If Beijing does not wish to improve human rights, then they should not make such promises. Get your facts right!!! Hello,

Your view about Martin Lee is unfounded. The source article by Martin Lee stated that China had pledged to improve human rights as a pre-requisite for hosting the Olympic Games:

“By applying for the Olympics, we want to promote not just the city’s development, but the development of society, including democracy and human rights,” one of China’s key Olympic figures, Deputy Mayor Liu Jingmin, told the Washington Post in 2001. Then, Mr. Liu said, “If people have a target like the Olympics to strive for, it will help us establish a more just and harmonious society, a more democratic society, and help integrate China into the world.” (Wall Street Journal, Oct 17, 2007)

This call for improving human rights is not coming from outside China, from ‘external powers’, but from within China by the Deputy Mayor Liu Jingmin. The real issue here is that Beijing itself has called for an improvement in human rights, and Martin Lee is only encouraging ‘external powers’ to monitor this promise. If Beijing does not wish to improve human rights, then they should not make such promises. Get your facts right!!!

]]> By: leo http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/comment-page-1/#comment-1201233 leo Sun, 28 Oct 2007 03:42:18 +0000 http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/10/26/hong-kong-chinas-olympic-opportunity/#comment-1201233 It is disgusting to see Martin Lee writing to invite foreign intervention of the domestic politics of China through the Olympic game event. It is the ideal that Olympic game is a chance to promote understandings and mutual respect and acceptance of different countries through a non-political event. What Martin Lee had done is unacceptable to a sensible person no matter he is a Chinese or not. It is disgusting to see Martin Lee writing to invite foreign intervention of the domestic politics of China through the Olympic game event. It is the ideal that Olympic game is a chance to promote understandings and mutual respect and acceptance of different countries through a non-political event.
What Martin Lee had done is unacceptable to a sensible person no matter he is a Chinese or not.

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