Comments on: Turkey is Typing: The Killings in Malatya http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/04/28/turkey-is-typing-the-killings-in-malatya/ The world is talking. Are you listening? Mon, 28 May 2012 10:58:43 -0400 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Island Gal http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/04/28/turkey-is-typing-the-killings-in-malatya/comment-page-2/#comment-1184566 Island Gal Sun, 10 Jun 2007 07:34:03 +0000 http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/04/28/turkey-is-typing-the-killings-in-malatya/#comment-1184566 It's really sad to read such news, may their soul rest in peace and may the good lord bless their families.Let us try and be respective of each others irrepective of race, colour, or religion. It’s really sad to read such news, may their soul rest in peace and may the good lord bless their families.Let us try and be respective of each others irrepective of race, colour, or religion.

]]> By: Sean http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/04/28/turkey-is-typing-the-killings-in-malatya/comment-page-1/#comment-1090452 Sean Wed, 09 May 2007 18:40:23 +0000 http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/04/28/turkey-is-typing-the-killings-in-malatya/#comment-1090452 Gulay said "The Husband works in construction industry and one of his favorite mantras is that the example starts at the top" Gulay, I agree with you, however, when the top is not doing a good job, the bottom should stand up and make a change. Turkey needs a major revolution, lead by its people who are tired of reading about incidents like the one above or Hrant Dink's murder. The government and military are happy with the way things are (not including the recent election issues), because they are running the show. Gulay said “The Husband works in construction industry and one of his favorite mantras is that the example starts at the top”

Gulay, I agree with you, however, when the top is not doing a good job, the bottom should stand up and make a change. Turkey needs a major revolution, lead by its people who are tired of reading about incidents like the one above or Hrant Dink’s murder. The government and military are happy with the way things are (not including the recent election issues), because they are running the show.

]]> By: Mike M http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/04/28/turkey-is-typing-the-killings-in-malatya/comment-page-1/#comment-1068587 Mike M Thu, 03 May 2007 12:21:09 +0000 http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/04/28/turkey-is-typing-the-killings-in-malatya/#comment-1068587 We watch and wonder. What kind of society does not protect the strangers in their land who do no harm, who desire good for their family and their neighbors' family? Condemn the act and the guilty, but do nothing to prevent it or judge rightly the motive? What good is that. Such behavior may be acceptable to the naive at best. God will perform good from this. He always has, but God have mercy on those who turn their back and call good evil and evil good. We watch and wonder. What kind of society does not protect the strangers in their land who do no harm, who desire good for their family and their neighbors’ family? Condemn the act and the guilty, but do nothing to prevent it or judge rightly the motive? What good is that. Such behavior may be acceptable to the naive at best. God will perform good from this. He always has, but God have mercy on those who turn their back and call good evil and evil good.

]]> By: Alfonso http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/04/28/turkey-is-typing-the-killings-in-malatya/comment-page-1/#comment-1068473 Alfonso Thu, 03 May 2007 11:05:28 +0000 http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/04/28/turkey-is-typing-the-killings-in-malatya/#comment-1068473 In my view, the problem is not the issue of PR or the image Turkey projects, although from the pragmatic viewpoint (as when it wants to join the EU) these have significant consequences. The root of the problem lies in the religious and philosophical foundations of Islam. What happened in Malatya could happen, and is happening, in many other Islamic countries. There is an interpretation of Islam that brooks no compromise, and there are many muslims who would maintain that this is the true, and only, interpretation. This is the Islam that seeks 'an eye for an eye', that would wipe all 'infidels' from the face of the earth, that orders its women to be subservient for ever, etc. It is a version that is deeply rooted in the thought-world of the pastoral and tribal communities of another age. This is a faith that is not self-critical, would never tolerate any critical examination of its beliefs or practices - knows nothing about dialogue and tolerance. They are absolutely sure that they are right and every one else is wrong. There are countries such as Malaysia where a more easy-going, tolerant form of Islam is practised, but to the zealots, such countries are apostates. How can one co-exist peaceably with such? The only way, if they have the upper hand, is to convert to their faith or risk having our throats cut as well. ALternatively, we have to ensure they will never have the upper-hand, or they stay in their own communities where they can do no harm to others. In my view, the problem is not the issue of PR or the image Turkey projects, although from the pragmatic viewpoint (as when it wants to join the EU) these have significant consequences. The root of the problem lies in the religious and philosophical foundations of Islam. What happened in Malatya could happen, and is happening, in many other Islamic countries. There is an interpretation of Islam that brooks no compromise, and there are many muslims who would maintain that this is the true, and only, interpretation. This is the Islam that seeks ‘an eye for an eye’, that would wipe all ‘infidels’ from the face of the earth, that orders its women to be subservient for ever, etc. It is a version that is deeply rooted in the thought-world of the pastoral and tribal communities of another age. This is a faith that is not self-critical, would never tolerate any critical examination of its beliefs or practices – knows nothing about dialogue and tolerance. They are absolutely sure that they are right and every one else is wrong. There are countries such as Malaysia where a more easy-going, tolerant form of Islam is practised, but to the zealots, such countries are apostates.
How can one co-exist peaceably with such? The only way, if they have the upper hand, is to convert to their faith or risk having our throats cut as well. ALternatively, we have to ensure they will never have the upper-hand, or they stay in their own communities where they can do no harm to others.

]]> By: metin http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/04/28/turkey-is-typing-the-killings-in-malatya/comment-page-1/#comment-1067892 metin Thu, 03 May 2007 07:01:10 +0000 http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/04/28/turkey-is-typing-the-killings-in-malatya/#comment-1067892 Gulay, you are right about that! Unless the 'mentality' and the patience with impatience changes in the near future, Turkey might be headed for some rude awakening. In the meantime, the 'secular' establishment's threats are not helping, especially when if put to test, those 'threats' might be nothing more than a bluff and pure smoke when push comes to shove. Hopefully, they won't have to show their hand as the 'opposition' Islamists fold once again, until the next time. Gulay, you are right about that! Unless the ‘mentality’ and the patience with impatience changes in the near future, Turkey might be headed for some rude awakening. In the meantime, the ‘secular’ establishment’s threats are not helping, especially when if put to test, those ‘threats’ might be nothing more than a bluff and pure smoke when push comes to shove. Hopefully, they won’t have to show their hand as the ‘opposition’ Islamists fold once again, until the next time.

]]> By: Gulay http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/04/28/turkey-is-typing-the-killings-in-malatya/comment-page-1/#comment-1067442 Gulay Thu, 03 May 2007 04:06:58 +0000 http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/04/28/turkey-is-typing-the-killings-in-malatya/#comment-1067442 Metin, unfortunately I agree with you. I have to say that Turkey's PR and its ability to shoot and put its foot in mouth at the same time never cease to amaze me and nor does the Turkish Governments silence on many issues help either. The last 10 years there appears to have been an upswing in the tolerance of acts committed in Islams name in Turkey, honor killings, Hrant Dink and now this in Malatya. What I find more distressing though is that under the Ottomans religious tolerance appears to have been greater than under our current leaders! The Husband works in construction industry and one of his favorite mantras is that the example starts at the top. The problem as I see it is that people like the transport minister whose respsonse to a rail crash that killed a few people was Inshallah. And he kept his job!!!! "Nuff said Metin, unfortunately I agree with you. I have to say that Turkey’s PR and its ability to shoot and put its foot in mouth at the same time never cease to amaze me and nor does the Turkish Governments silence on many issues help either. The last 10 years there appears to have been an upswing in the tolerance of acts committed in Islams name in Turkey, honor killings, Hrant Dink and now this in Malatya. What I find more distressing though is that under the Ottomans religious tolerance appears to have been greater than under our current leaders! The Husband works in construction industry and one of his favorite mantras is that the example starts at the top. The problem as I see it is that people like the transport minister whose respsonse to a rail crash that killed a few people was Inshallah. And he kept his job!!!! “Nuff said

]]> By: metin http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/04/28/turkey-is-typing-the-killings-in-malatya/comment-page-1/#comment-1066375 metin Wed, 02 May 2007 21:38:36 +0000 http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/04/28/turkey-is-typing-the-killings-in-malatya/#comment-1066375 The current 'events' in Turkey do not help the fight against the argument that John brings, at least from a perception point of view, of and by the West. Of course Turkey can choose the 'who cares' attitude, but the bottom line is that Turkey needs to pay attention to its image and the tarnishment of it lately. As I've commented recently, "Now the whole world can see clearly that there is no such thing as 'moderate' Islam. Heck, even the ones subscribing to it have a problem with owning it!" In the end, "I wonder if the worse fears of the 'seculars' have yet to be realized." The current ‘events’ in Turkey do not help the fight against the argument that John brings, at least from a perception point of view, of and by the West.

Of course Turkey can choose the ‘who cares’ attitude, but the bottom line is that Turkey needs to pay attention to its image and the tarnishment of it lately.

As I’ve commented recently, “Now the whole world can see clearly that there is no such thing as ‘moderate’ Islam. Heck, even the ones subscribing to it have a problem with owning it!”

In the end, “I wonder if the worse fears of the ‘seculars’ have yet to be realized.”

]]> By: Amerikan Turk http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/04/28/turkey-is-typing-the-killings-in-malatya/comment-page-1/#comment-1066042 Amerikan Turk Wed, 02 May 2007 19:55:59 +0000 http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/04/28/turkey-is-typing-the-killings-in-malatya/#comment-1066042 John, If you want to get into a "your religion sucks more than mine does" debate, I'll pass. Been there, done that. All organized religions are defective, divisive, prejudiced, violent, and supremist, IMHO. Crack open a holy book and you'll find all kinds of directives to fight opposing believers and to physically punish sinners, describing right down to the kind of implements and methods required.. Bird-dogging "Islam" as "the problem" is like saying "A German Shepard can kill you".. well so can a rottweiler, pitbull, and doberman.. heck even a little weiner dog can nibble it's way to your aorta, if you let it. On one point we might agree. I admit that overall, too many Muslims are still a little behind the curve on tolerance of "infidels". But adjusted for "inflation", Christianity is not so far ahead either. You get my drift. John,

If you want to get into a “your religion sucks more than mine does” debate, I’ll pass. Been there, done that.

All organized religions are defective, divisive, prejudiced, violent, and supremist, IMHO. Crack open a holy book and you’ll find all kinds of directives to fight opposing believers and to physically punish sinners, describing right down to the kind of implements and methods required..

Bird-dogging “Islam” as “the problem” is like saying “A German Shepard can kill you”.. well so can a rottweiler, pitbull, and doberman.. heck even a little weiner dog can nibble it’s way to your aorta, if you let it.

On one point we might agree. I admit that overall, too many Muslims are still a little behind the curve on tolerance of “infidels”. But adjusted for “inflation”, Christianity is not so far ahead either. You get my drift.

]]> By: Mr. Bora Kanber http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/04/28/turkey-is-typing-the-killings-in-malatya/comment-page-1/#comment-1061901 Mr. Bora Kanber Tue, 01 May 2007 21:09:13 +0000 http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/04/28/turkey-is-typing-the-killings-in-malatya/#comment-1061901 Dear Metin, I am sorry, I could not understand anything from what you say. Can you repeat please? Dear Metin, I am sorry, I could not understand anything from what you say. Can you repeat please?

]]> By: john kactuz http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/04/28/turkey-is-typing-the-killings-in-malatya/comment-page-1/#comment-1061311 john kactuz Tue, 01 May 2007 17:13:13 +0000 http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/04/28/turkey-is-typing-the-killings-in-malatya/#comment-1061311 "General condemnation" and nothing are the same if things don't change, if nothing is done to even attempt to understand the source of the problem. This will not only happen again but it will get worse. As I posted here after the murder of Dink, this is about an ideology of hate and violence. If you will check here, post after post blamed it on "Nationalism" and "Turkish identity" issues. Now with the murder of these three men, the Turkish manistream media and bloggers (see comment above) still can't seem to identify the problem that causes people to kill so easily. Let me give you a hint. Dink's murderer yelled "I killed a non-Muslim" after the act. The vile people that brutally tortured, filmed and murdered these three men said the "did it for Islam". Can you figure it out now? The problem is not nationalism, Turkey or even "turkishness." The problem is Islam. Pity the poor non-Muslims of the Middle East, Turkey, Pakistan and other Islamic nations. And, of course, Muslims will pretend this actions have nothing to do with Islam, or, as always, blame others. Can Islam change? I have seen no indication that it can, or that the so-called "moderate" Muslims are willing to take a look into the soul of their faith and ask why, why and why. In simple terms: "radical" Muslims kill and "moderates" make excuses and blame others. It will get worse, much worse. Im am very pessimistic about our future. It will not be nice. John Kactuz “General condemnation” and nothing are the same if things don’t change, if nothing is done to even attempt to understand the source of the problem. This will not only happen again but it will get worse.

As I posted here after the murder of Dink, this is about an ideology of hate and violence. If you will check here, post after post blamed it on “Nationalism” and “Turkish identity” issues. Now with the murder of these three men, the Turkish manistream media and bloggers (see comment above) still can’t seem to identify the problem that causes people to kill so easily.

Let me give you a hint. Dink’s murderer yelled “I killed a non-Muslim” after the act. The vile people that brutally tortured, filmed and murdered these three men said the “did it for Islam”.

Can you figure it out now? The problem is not nationalism, Turkey or even “turkishness.” The problem is Islam.

Pity the poor non-Muslims of the Middle East, Turkey, Pakistan and other Islamic nations. And, of course, Muslims will pretend this actions have nothing to do with Islam, or, as always, blame others. Can Islam change? I have seen no indication that it can, or that the so-called “moderate” Muslims are willing to take a look into the soul of their faith and ask why, why and why. In simple terms: “radical” Muslims kill and “moderates” make excuses and blame others.

It will get worse, much worse. Im am very pessimistic about our future. It will not be nice.

John Kactuz

]]> By: metin http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/04/28/turkey-is-typing-the-killings-in-malatya/comment-page-1/#comment-1057251 metin Mon, 30 Apr 2007 16:31:09 +0000 http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/2007/04/28/turkey-is-typing-the-killings-in-malatya/#comment-1057251 I am surprised more discussion about secularism vs. moderate Islam (and the fact that 'seculars' in Turkey are also 'Muslim,' have not taken place by the mainstream media. Maybe the 'eroding of democracy' is not a cause of concern for anyone, or changing the rules in the middle of the game when the game's not going good enough is the 'new' democracy. I am surprised more discussion about secularism vs. moderate Islam (and the fact that ‘seculars’ in Turkey are also ‘Muslim,’ have not taken place by the mainstream media.

Maybe the ‘eroding of democracy’ is not a cause of concern for anyone, or changing the rules in the middle of the game when the game’s not going good enough is the ‘new’ democracy.

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