Comments on: Point-Counterpoint: Kurdistance vs. Turkey is Typing…

By: emre

emre — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:41:04 +0000

les kurdes tuent plein e innocents et les turcs doivent de defendre et repouser les kurdes en irak

By: Murat Altinbasak

Murat Altinbasak — Mon, 10 Apr 2006 03:11:55 +0000

Hejar,

It might interest you to engage with other Turks or Kurds here:

http://www.amerikanturks.com/forums/index.php

Everyone is welcome to join this Discussion Forum, very recently launched.

-Murat

By: Propellerhat

Propellerhat — Mon, 10 Apr 2006 02:24:15 +0000

Concerning ROJ TV, the station that is accused to incinerate hatred:

Recently two TV stations in Turkey were allowed to broadcast in Kurdish. The Kurdish program is however limited to four hours per week. This is not enough to draw people’s attention away from ROJ TV. There should be unlimited TV broadcasting in Kurdish throughout Turkey.
These stations would be under Turkish legislation, while ROJ TV broadcasts from Denmark. (Censoring these stations would offcourse make them worthless.)

By: Hejar

Hejar — Sat, 08 Apr 2006 19:19:59 +0000

What I am reading in these posts surprisingly are very new to me, why I am saying that ? Because I have never red before in Turkish related (English speaking media) to talk about kurdish question and kurdish people without prejudice and hatred. Deborah may be you deserve all appreciation for easing the way for such a sound discussion.
I will summarize my views as follows :
1- Kurdish People and Kurdish issue is not just limited to the State of
Turkey, in other word the Kurdish question is a ” transnational”
issue. It needs a regional solution, involving the States
governments) in Turkey, Iran, Iraq , Syria and Kurdish liberation
movement(s)
2- A change of mentality in the whole area may pave the way for mutual
acceptance without duress. A task although tough and not easy ,but
without doubt a factor for reconstruction a new way of conduct
between “kurds” and their ” others”.
3- I personally believe that the establishment of the “nation-states”
in the region ,on one side curbed the way for a distinct statehood
for the kurds , but at the same time in itself wasa factor for
kurdish national awareness.
I will reiterate my wishes to engage with Turkish people like the once
blogged above in a sound and logical debate about the kurdish issue.
Hejar

By: metin

metin — Sat, 08 Apr 2006 05:01:45 +0000

I would recommend Mustafa Akyol’s book ‘Rethinking the Kurdish Question.’

By: Oz Kanka

Oz Kanka — Fri, 07 Apr 2006 16:20:34 +0000

First up I’d like to say that was a very nice piece Deborah. Well done. I don’t wish to contribute to the debate between our two American Turkish friends but would like to say I am enjoying it.

By: Amerikan Turk

Amerikan Turk — Fri, 07 Apr 2006 13:43:26 +0000

It may not interest Kurds to hear the views of a couple of Amerikan Turks, but we’re very interested in hearing their side. It’s a pity if no one is going to stand up and take a position. Makes the whole dream of “Northern Kurdistan” seem even more hollow and pointless.

By: Murat Altinbasak

Murat Altinbasak — Fri, 07 Apr 2006 03:51:44 +0000

Metin, with the inevitable creation of an independent Kurdistan in Northern Iraq, the chances of even one square centimeter of Turkey being given to the Kurds, has disappeared irrevocably and completely. So I beg to differ- never is appropriate and correct.

They were the largest ethnic group without a “homeland”. Now that they almost have a homeland in Northern Iraq, they thirst for more and Turkey should just yield? No. Never.

If you go to a fruit stand and the vendor gives you an apple for free, do you then reply: “Free? then I’ll take two”? I don’t think so.

By: metin

metin — Thu, 06 Apr 2006 21:31:43 +0000

We should not confuse terrorism and terrorists with the overall Kurdish question. I agree that yielding to terrorists is a no-no. But are we suggesting that all Kurds are terrorists. Do we even know what the Kurds really want. Would the ‘terroristic’ or radical faction of the Kurdish representation come to an abrupt end if Kurds satisfactorily receive what they desire. Can a mutually beneficial partnership coexist between the Kurds and the Turks.

Maybe we should ask the people for whom we keep making ‘this is better for you’ decisions whether they’d really like to declare independency, and what a border redefinition would mean to the Turks overall. Maybe, like the Panama Canal, or Hong Kong, or even Israel and Palestine, the proper solution needs to be addressed now but digested over a period of time. Maybe an independent federation or a protectorship similar to the one between Turkish Cyprus and Turkey would be made to work. Who knows what this kind of ‘intelligent’ debate will lead to. I, for one, would like to hear all alternatives and discuss these options without fear or reprisal or limitations, as well as the bullying that exists by both sides trying to intimidate the local population to sway to one or the other side of the fence.

Let’s keep an open mind and never say never!

By: Amerikan Turk

Amerikan Turk — Thu, 06 Apr 2006 20:24:17 +0000

metin…”I am not in agreement with you that an independent Kurdistan should be limited to Northern Iraq. I think Kurds have a right to make claims of their secession, or being able to federalize their state within the union of Turkey, just like all citizens of Turkey. If the majority in a minority state desires separation then the controlling entity needs to face the music and deal with the ensuing situation.”

To even suggest that Turkey should submit to the land-grabbing of the Kurds is a real kick in the teeth. Untold thousands of Turks didn’t die defending and defining our present borders, just so that it could be given away in submission to terrorists. We’ve made effort to stop “Turkifying” Kurds and we’ve broadened their cultural and expressive freedoms, as it should be. But as we can see, this has only inspired a hunger for more on their part, and this fact makes it ever clearer to see why such freedoms have been limited for so long.

By: metin

metin — Thu, 06 Apr 2006 18:29:04 +0000

We also need to be contextual in our representation of others. Common courtesy.

By: metin

metin — Thu, 06 Apr 2006 18:27:36 +0000

We need to get a reality check and some mentality revision needs to take place. The deaths of soldiers and civilians does not and should not limit us from discussing the vision for tomorrow. Of course, any deaths should not be in vain, and in fact, the ethnicity of the civilians who died can be debated by both sides. Obviously, there’s the ongoing issue of mixed ethnicity and culture where assimilation has taken hold and national identity is not as clearly defined.

I am not in agreement with you that an independent Kurdistan should be limited to Northern Iraq. I think Kurds have a right to make claims of their secession, or being able to federalize their state within the union of Turkey, just like all citizens of Turkey. If the majority in a minority state desires separation then the controlling entity needs to face the music and deal with the ensuing situation. If it ignores and hopes that a temporary condition will come to pass, then the more militant factions of both sides will get involved and civilians will get hurt. We need to keep an open mind and realize that sanctions and military policing will not restrain the unrest caused by years of economic and social starvation.

As for ‘Turkophobia,’ what do you expect after the Turkish parliament, despite assurances from the ruling party officials, voted to not allow American troops to invade Iraq from southern Turkey. Broken promises have been and continue to be the norm for all parties as conditions change ever-rapidly in that region. Even the leadership positions are not yet clear and there is no unifying force as of yet.

Turkey needs to start reidentifying itself as an underdog and a friend of global realization and not as a regional power hungry entity of neo-nationalistic proportion.

By: Amerikan Turk

Amerikan Turk — Thu, 06 Apr 2006 16:06:57 +0000

Metin, I didn’t intend to color everyone with one broad stroke. My reference to certain people doesn’t mean I believe all of the pro-Bush right is Islamophobic. It’s hard to deny though that they are showing symptoms of “Turkophobia” and “Kurdo-guiltius-sympathy-osis”. While it’s true that an independent Kurdistan seems inevitable, it must and it will be limited to Northern Iraq. As I said in a recent comment to you on AT:

metin said…
Maybe they should think about giving up that part of the country to the squatters and be done with it.

Murat Altinbasak said…
“Metin, that would trivialize and dis-respect and dismiss the deaths of scores of Turkish soldiers and non-combatant civilians caught in the crossfire….”

By: metin

metin — Thu, 06 Apr 2006 15:31:28 +0000

I resent Amerikan Turk’s reference of “ignorant comments left there by the militant pro-Bush Islamophobic right.” Not all Bush supporters are Islamophobic and not all of the pro-Bush crowd is militant nor ignorant. In fact, with a little research, one can find ‘Muslims for Bush’ and I am guessing there are both pro and anti-Bush segments within both Turkish and Kurdish citizens in America, as well as internationally.

Going back to the topic at hand. I, representing one American point of view, always have referred to the rule of the majority and long-term objective and ‘vision’ for the ‘common good’ so long as ‘common sense’ was also achieved.

My preference would be for the ‘Kurds,’ or citizens of Turkey who live in that region of Turkey, to participate in a referendum with both sides campaigning for each of their resolutions. The outcome may surprise both sides equally. The bottom line is that an independent Kurdistan is inevitable. It is the digestion of such a reality by the overall Turkish ‘mentality’ which needs to be worked on. The recent violence-ridden animosities do not help us achieve that goal, possibly by design by instigators and their shrinking agenda. Maybe they see themselves as no longer needed if all works out and their existence is made obsolete. Who knows.

It is also wrong to blame media for the coverage of actions that take place, good, bad, or ugly. The media mirrors the sentiments of the result of an ongoing action. The media is neither a reflection of the past nor an indicator of the future. They merely report on their version of the present.

I believe it is time for Turkish, Kurdish-Turk, as well as Kurdish principals to come together and discuss the options that are on the table, both from a radical point-of-view and the view of those wanting to keep the status quo, both of which will fail in the long term and is only a temporary prescription to defer the real resolution for a later and more courageous time and players.

By: Amerikan Turk

Amerikan Turk — Thu, 06 Apr 2006 13:54:11 +0000

I’m not sure if it’s a good idea for Turkish and Kurdish bloggers to cross swords on this venue, but clearly the first few shots have been fired over the bow. Let me append my original reply to Erkan’s answer to me:

“Erkan, my point was directed towards the overwhelmingly large number of Americans who believe that the Kurds [in Northern Iraq] are:
-all peaceful, tolerant, without prejudice, and against terrorism
-deserving of their own state carved from the ruins of Iraq, in spite of promises the US made to Turkey in March 2003
-a “truer” and more credible ally to the US, than Turkey is..

Find Michael Totten’s website or the one called “Redneck’s Revenge” and read the ridiculous and ignorant comments left there by the militant pro-Bush Islamophobic right.

You will notice that Turkey is dismissed (for refusing use of Incirlik for Iraq) and Kurds are the best thing since sliced bread.

Let these wing-nuts see the unseen for a change. Turkey’s campaign against the PKK gets no coverage here in the US, but these random acts of violence most certainly do..