DO U UNDERSTAND

i’d like to congratulate you on reading, and speaking in facts, whether or not you understood what those facts resemble is a totally different story.

let’s talk for instance about that bit about the wars, and the sword and how you’ve laid it out just like fox would put as a set of facts that only paint a picture based on a pre-conceived notion!

Yes! there were wars, Yes! there was killing! however if you carefully read your carefully laid out post you’ll find interesting items such as “he punishment of ((((((those who wage war)))))) against Allah and his messenger” now i believe you must be quite familiar with the english language and understand what it means to wage war!…and i also believe thatits fair enough and let me say just and logical to protect what you have (unless of course you believe what israel is doing is right, robbing people of their lands and building settlements…which shall be a hwole different story)…i’m also unsure if you realize that the sort of free speach that you speak of today wasn’t quite enforced back in those ages, and so the people of many nations did not get a fair chance of hearing out what islam is all about because their rulers had a tight bolt and lock on their minds (a little similar to the media propaganda and mind control and brain was that most westeners prefer to be subjected to whilst sitting comfortably on their IKEA couches, nibbling on pop corn as the number of dead people in palestine and iraq keep rolling down, ofcourse some of you have realized that you’re being mind controlled and have become all paranoid and looked up to the sky waiting for alien life form to rescue you, or maybe stripped naked and walked around in the blazing cold to try to make a point that we were born like that -too bad the seasons disagree- or maybe the sort of people to really begin judging islam are the red necks firing bullets at people while being intoxicated with alchol, or maybe, or maybe or maybe…………

i gotta tell you man i really gave up on comin here but your post really pissed me off, coz what’s much worse than speaking emotionaly is building a mosaic of how you feel through tit bits of facts, but i wouldn’t expect anything more or less of you, you don’t know where you’re going, don’t know where you’re going to, and basically all you care about is getting the freedom to wear women’s clothing and make fun of other people, sort of reminds me of the high school bullies, have your kicks now, …. and who knows…. maybe all people will go to heaven no matter what they did and all we gotta do is just be good, how about you try and tell that to a class full of crazy immature kids, and see if they’ll borrow guns from their dad’s arsenal and blow up the entire school….

i know i got a bit emotional in this thread i don’t really know you, and i can’t really judge you, all i can say is just , Oh! for god’s sake wake up maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan

570 – Birth of Muhammad in Mecca into the tribe of Quraish.
577 – Muhammads mother dies
580 – Death of Abdul Muttalib, Muhammads grandfather.
583 – First journey to Syria with a trading Caravan
595 – Muhammad marries Khadijah a rich widow several years older than him.
595 – Second journey to Syria
598 – His son, Qasim, is born
600 – His daughter, Zainab, is born
603 – His daughter, Um-e-Kalthum, is born
604 – His daughter, Ruqayya, is born
605 – Placement of Black Stone in Kaaba.
605 – His daughter, Fatima, is born
610 – Mohammed, in a cave on Mt. Hira, hears the angel Gabriel tell him that Allah is the only true God.
613 – Muhammads first public preaching of Islam at Mt. Hira. Gets few converts.
615 – Muslims persecuted by the Quraish.
619 – Marries Sauda and Aisha (9 years old)
620 – Institution of five daily prayers
622 – Muhammad immigrates from Mecca to Medina, which was then called Yathrib, gets more converts.

Power of Sword

623 – Battle of Waddan
623 – Battle of Safwan
623 – Battle of Dul-Ashir
624 – Muhammad and converts begin raids on caravans to fund the movement.
624 – Zakat becomes mandatory
624 – Battle of Badr
624 – Battle of Bani Salim
624 – Battle of Eid-ul-Fitr and Zakat-ul-Fitr
624 – Battle of Bani Qainuqa
624 – Battle of Sawiq
624 – Battle of Ghatfan
624 – Battle of Bahran
625 – Battle of Uhud. 70 Muslims are killed.
625 – Battle of Humra-ul-Asad
625 – Battle of Banu Nudair
625 – Battle of Dhatur-Riqa
626 – Battle of Badru-Ukhra
626 – Battle of Dumatul-Jandal
626 – Battle of Banu Mustalaq Nikah
627 – Battle of the Trench
627 – Battle of Ahzab
627 – Battle of Bani Quraiza
627 – Battle of Bani Lahyan
627 – Battle of Ghaiba
627 – Battle of Khaibar
628 – Muhammad signs treaty with Quraish.
630 – Muhammad conquers Mecca.
630 – Battle of Hunsin.
630 – Battle of Tabuk
632 – Muhammad dies.
632 – Abu-Bakr, Muhammads father-in-law, along with Umar, begin a military move to enforce Islam in Arabia.
633 – Battle at Oman
633 – Battle at Hadramaut.
633 – Battle of Kazima
633 – Battle of Walaja
633 – Battle of Ulleis
633 – Battle of Anbar
634 – Battle of Basra,
634 – Battle of Damascus
634 – Battle of Ajnadin.
634 – Death of Hadrat Abu Bakr. Hadrat Umar Farooq becomes the Caliph.
634 – Battle of Namaraq
634 – Battle of Saqatia.
635 – Battle of Bridge.
635 – Battle of Buwaib.
635 – Conquest of Damascus.
635 – Battle of Fahl.
636 – Battle of Yermuk.
636 – Battle of Qadsiyia.
636 – Conquest of Madain.
637 – Battle of Jalula.
638 – Battle of Yarmouk.
638 – The Muslims defeat the Romans and enter Jerusalem.
638 – Conquest of Jazirah.
639 – Conquest of Khuizistan and movement into Egypt.
641 – Battle of Nihawand
642 – Battle of Ray in Persia
643 – Conquest of Azarbaijan
644 – Conquest of Fars
644 – Conquest of Kharan.
644 – Umar is murdered. Othman becomes the Caliph.
647 – Conquest of the island of Cypress
644 – Uman dies and is succeeded by Caliph Uthman.
648 – Campaign against the Byzantines.
651 – Naval battle against the Byzantines.
654 – Islam spreads into North Africa
656 – Uthman is murdered. Ali become Caliph.
658 – Battle of Nahrawan.
659 – Conquest of Egypt
661 – Ali is murdered.
662 – Egypt falls to Islam rule.
666 – Sicily is attacked by Muslims
677 – Siege of Constantinople
687 – Battle of Kufa
691 – Battle of Deir ul Jaliq
700 – Sufism takes root as a sect of Islam
700 – Military campaigns in North Africa
702 – Battle of Deir ul Jamira
711 – Muslims invade Gibraltar
711 – Conquest of Spain
713 – Conquest of Multan
716 – Invasion of Constantinople
732 – Battle of Tours in France.
740 – Battle of the Nobles.
741 – Battle of Bagdoura in North Africa
744 – Battle of Ain al Jurr.
746 – Battle of Rupar Thutha
748 – Battle of Rayy.
749 – Battle of lsfahan
749 – Battle of Nihawand
750 – Battle of Zab
772 – Battle of Janbi in North Africa
777 – Battle of Saragossa in Spain

Islam the religion of peace!!!

“O Prophet! Make war against the unbelievers [all non-Muslims] and the hypocrites and be merciless against them. Their home is hell, an evil refuge indeed.” (Koran, 9:73)

“When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended.” (Koran, 47:4)

“The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or to have their hands and feet chopped off on opposite sides, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror.” (Koran, 5:33-34)

“When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah’s word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly.” (Koran, 17:16-17)

“In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost.” (Koran, 8:37)

“How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their sins, setting up in their place other peoples.” (Koran, 21:11)

“Remember Allah inspired the angels: I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their fingertips off of them.” (Koran, 8:12)
——————————-
Bukhari:V4B52N220 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror.’”

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/JAK269624.htm

The Crusader wars about which the professor is talking – these wars came after the Islamic religious teachings, and as a response to these teachings. This is the law of action and reaction. The Islamic religious teachings have incited to the rejection of the other, to the denial of the other, and to the killing of the other. Have they not incited to the killing of Jews and Christians? If we had heard that a tribe in a distant corner of China has a holy book and religious teachings calling to kill Muslims – would the Muslims stand idly by in the face of such teachings?

The Crusader wars came after these Islamic religious teachings. When these Islamic teachings were delivered, America did not exist on the face of the earth, nor was Israel in Palestine…

Why doesn’t he talk about the Muslim conquests that preceded all the wars he is talking about? Why doesn’t he mention that when Tariq bin Ziyyad entered Andalusia with his armies, he said to his people: “The sea is behind you, and the enemy is in front”? How can you storm a peaceful country, and consider all its peaceful inhabitants to be your enemies, merely because you have the right to spread your religion? Should the religion be spread by the sword and through fighting?…

Bin Muhammad: Who invented slavery in recent centuries? Who colonized the other – us or them? Did Algeria colonize France, or vice versa? Did Egypt colonize England, or vice versa? We are the victims…

I am not saying that killing innocent people is nice. I say that all innocent people should be protected. But at the same time, we must start with the innocent among the Muslims. There are millions of innocent people among us, while the innocent among you – and innocent they are – number only dozens, hundreds, or thousands, at the most…

Wafa Sultan: Can you explain to me the killing of a hundred thousand children, women and men in Algeria, using the most abominable killing methods? Can you explain to me the killing of 15,000 Syrian civilians? Can you explain to me the abominable crime in the military artillery school in Aleppo? Can you explain the crime in Al-Asbaqiya neighborhood of Damascus, Syria? Can you explain the attack of the terrorists on the peaceful village of Al-Kisheh in Upper Egypt, and the massacre of 21 Coptic peasants? Can you explain to me what is going on in Indonesia, Turkey, and Egypt, even though these are Islamic countries which opposed the American intervention in Iraq, and which don’t have armies in Iraq, yet were not spared by the terrorists? Can you explain these phenomena, which took place in Arab countries? Was all this revenge on America or Israel? Or were they merely to satisfy bestial wild instincts aroused in them by religious teachings, which incite to rejection of the other, to the killing of the other, and to the denial of the other. When Saddam Hussein buried 300,000 Shiites and Kurds alive, we did not hear a single Muslim protesting. Your silence served to acknowledge the legitimacy of these killings, didn’t it?…

What do you want from me? To speak evil of the American society? I’ve never said that America is the eternal city of Plato, but I did say it was the eternal city of Wafa Sultan. The idealism of American society was enough to allow me to realize my humanity. I came to this country with fear.

Bin Muhammad:Along with the Indians? Along with the Indians? What was left of the Indians? What do you have to say about the Indians?

Wafa Sultan: Christopher Columbus discovered American in 1492. America was founded in 1776, approximately 300 years later. You cannot blame America – as a constitution, a regime, and a state – for killing the Indians.

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/02/15/denmar12676.htm

Thank you for your letter.

I’m sure that you’re right about the cartoonist drawing your Prophet with a bomb in his turban. He or she was undoubtedly influenced by impressions from both the bombing that happened in London and the 9/11 incident. As we are all influenced by impressions when we communicate. And, truly, those were actual occurences.

Also, I’m sure that none of the cartoonists had any idea what kind of emotional bond, muslims have for the Prophet. I know I had no idea.

I think the cartoon was meant as a mental comment, not an emotional one. Some people are very mental when they communicate. Because of their way of thinking, the can be ignorant to the fact that the comment can be perceived in an emotional way.

So my opinion is that the cartoonist meant to say; it seems that there’s a connection between islam and bombings. And I think that you might agree that it’s understandable, given his or her experience/impressions that he or she would think so.

Unfortunately, it seems that muslims have read this comment in an emotional way. That is as an attack on the Prophet and a humiliation of him.

And the reactions, because of the emotional link that muslims have for the Prophet, have been as if they or their family had been attacked or humiliated.

:)

So now we must talk about honour. In what way is it possible to restore the honour of the Prophet?

No, not by means of threats of violence, as I’m sure you would agree.

And surely not by offering rewards for those who would steep as low as to kill in the name of your Prophet or your God.

The first mentioned is the tool of children having a disagreement playing in the school yard (and please understand that I don’t mean that as a derogatory remark, I’m trying to pull your attention to ways of solving a conflict).

The second mentioned tool of trying to restore honour is surely that of a person who’s lost his way, and who’s desperate, bursting with feelings. Using this method will cause a string of bad occurences. So that’s not a good one either.

My opinion is that the only way to restore the honour of your Prophet is to act like Him, to be Him.

If He was a peaceful man, be peaceful. If He did good, do good.

I can tell you that recently, some people burned the Cross in a demonstration in Iran. I was provoked by it, but I in no way felt threatened in regards to my faith.
Because I simply don’t believe that any such symbolic act can hurt my faith.
Seeing people do that, and seeing in their faces that they do it intentionally, just to spite, can provoke me, can piss me off. In relation to the “Down with Denmark” posters, they can piss me off tremendously. I decide on and off whether I ever want to do business with or give to charity in the country in mention ever again.

But no one can touch my faith because I carry it inside me.

The key is that faith is magic. Faith creates. I read about a muslim boy in the paper. He was magic. He said his mother always told him to give all the love he could. He was so happy, he was smiling. He had the most wonderful happy eyes. He said that when he wanted to start a course, everyone said he couldn’t pass, but he started anyway. In the run of the course he got an exercise back 8 times because his spelling wasn’t good enough. His teachers advised him to drop the course because they didn’t think he could make it. Still he continued his work and the 9th time he submitted the exercise, it was perfect.

He must have been thinking: I’m just sure I can make it.

Jesus talks about turning the other cheek. By many, this has been misunderstood as unreflectingly accepting injuries given by the hands of others.

That’s not the case. Turning the other cheek means taking injuries in the least hurtful way. Knowing what there is to know about the intention of others (their emotional state, their knowledge at the given time). Knowing what you as a person think of yourself (that you are whole, holy). And knowing what you know about the magic of faith.

All that combined makes it possible to refrain from taking yesterday’s hurt into today. Hence the unwounded cheek.

Smiling at someone you had an argument with yesterday can create new bonds.

:)

Dear Karim,
I know I only covered half of your letter, I’m sorry. There’s just so much to say about this whole thing. Maybe we’ll talk some other time.

Naser Khader, a muslim politician in Denmark, has started a new movement called Democratic Muslims, for which he is recieving applause from all sides of our society, indiginous and muslim alike. He has made it his mission to show everyone that Islam, in a modern version, is quite capable of existing within a democratic society. What he is advocating is actually what the west has been hoping for for years – an Islam without the restrictions and segregations seen in the middle east, an Islam without the narrowmindedness and egocentrism often displayed by radical western muslims, an Islam that embraces the ideals of democracy alongside it’s own convictions. Luckily, he is recieving overwhealming support from danish muslims, who are tired of being “represented” by a few loudmouthed radicals and want to show that they wish to live in our society and respect it’s laws just like everyone else. Seen in this light, this whole issue, painfull as it might have been, is now showing promise of turning out for the better!

I’m afraid it is still awaiting an english translation, but I’ll offer a link nonetheless:

http://www.demokratiskemuslimer.dk

Let’s see more of this and the world will be a better place to live!

Anyway I’ve told u before that we cannot reach any common point here and thats the problem here that I’m totally convinced with my point that there are things above u’re right to express and obviously u are not…so thats it and i chose not to argue with it again.

Regarding muslims in ur society or what u’ve seen about islam, I guess i donot want to here ur opinion again about it or hear ur details which i’m not sure of it’s sources by the way…and i donot have to defend u’re false accusation that “islam has caused nothing but opression and sorrow”..islam has caused nothing but sorrow??

Anyway, my words for u, and god knows it’s for his sake not urs, is try to know islam better..as if u believe that islam hasn’t caused but sorrow and opression then i guess u’re in the wrong way cuz definately it wouldn’t have been the largest growing religion on earth..which means that one day most of the living humans on earth will be following this religion that brings nothing but SORROW and i guess all these people who are following it aren’t all dum, poor , ignorant or stupid…are they? maybe they’re right, why not.
Just try to reconsider ur opinions and look for other sides of this religion, and ask urself WHY ARE THOSE INSANE PEOPLE FOLLOWING IT? maybe u can find a satisfying answer…and by the way u don’t have to answer me back as frankly I haven’t got much to add regarding this topic anymore…

“maybe they did that for fun for provoking or for any other reason”
That would be ‘other reason’… As mentioned a hundred times by now, the caricature was a lighthearted way of criticizing the the unwillingness of the muslim world to condemn the actions of fanatics and to show that any critisicm of Islam is likely to be met by rage rather than refelction. Both points have been proven beyond any doubt.

“So as a summary,I guess we know alot about western culture and we dodnot need to know it better,but on the other hand west needs to understand our culture better, needs to know more about it than seen on politically controlled media.Needs to forget this idea of “islamic terrorism” and try to see us from quite a new prospective.”
Sorry, but as mentioned earlier, I’ve lived 4 years in the middle east and this entire debate has only strengthened my earlier experiences – I don’t need to learn more about Islam, I see Islam every day on the television and in the streets of my own city, and I’m sorry, but I don’t like what I see!

Muslim guys yelling “whore” after danish girls they pass on the street
Muslim guys stabbing italian tourists on the street
Muslim girls sent to their parents countries for ‘moral re-education’
Muslim youths forced into arranged marriages
Muslim youths shot down by their family for marrying without their parents consent
Muslim guys responsible for 4 times the crimes/person of other danish ethnic groups
Muslim Imams demanding that our government break the laws of our country to punish someone they islike

Not acceptable!!!

The fact that conditions are horrible in the middle east is bad enough but that you bring those bad habits along when you “seek asylum” in my country is another thing entirely!

“i guess it wont be a surprise to publish such cartoons believing that the prophet is to be accused for what muslims do..which is totally unfair.”
Once again, we’re accusing YOU, not your prophet, of accepting and supporting fanatics in their quest to spread death and destruction everywere. Your prophet has been dead for 1500 years… For an atheist like me, he has nothing to do with this issue. You, on the other hand, have a great deal of the blame for all the bombings and killings going on in his name, for not speaking up and telling them that their actions are completely unacceptable.

I’m sorry if I come across as harsh and unbending, but there is simply no backing up on this issue! We are defending one of our most important basic rights here against the demands of a religion that at present brings nothing but oppresion, death and sorrow to the world and whose followers do nothing to stop this message!

I agree with u that every human is influenced with something that affects his personality, his way of communicating with others and his way to express as well, and speaking about those cartoons again i guess those who did that was totally influenced by the false bound relating islam to terrorism which is neither our fault not their’s ,and they were totally unaware of what prophet muhammad(peace be upon him) is to us..maybe they did also under-estimated muslims,maybe they did that for fun for provoking or for any other reason, but after all, we all considered it an unbarable insult and unfortunately it lead to all these consequnces.

As a believer,You should know as well that islam has respected all God’s prophets greatly and as muslims we should react the same thing if it was offensing jesus.

Ofcourse refusing what happened regarding burning embassies and uttering some phrases that may lead to more conflicts and hatred is out of question and i guess any reasonable muslim, even our “sheikhs” or priests refused to accept such acts as it never lead to any considerable solution to the crisis..such case needs more conversations, more interactions between islamic culture and west cultures and without talking and getting to know eachother better, i guess it wont be possible to live on one planet.
I mean we do have many differences between our cultures,something like respecting religion and puting red lines never to be crossed,and the western concept of “freedom” is a major delema that initiated all these debates and it have to be resolved.

So as a summary,I guess we know alot about western culture and we dodnot need to know it better,but on the other hand west needs to understand our culture better, needs to know more about it than seen on politically controlled media.Needs to forget this idea of “islamic terrorism” and try to see us from quite a new prospective.

And to be fair, Muslims should have the bigger part of the blame as it’s our duty to tell people what islam is,what muslims really are,what are our morals,manners,principles..what does islam call for,how did islam encouraged us to interact with others, and respects them as well. And frankly, poeple living in Denmark may have known nothing about islam rather than Bin-laden and suicidal attacks, i guess it wont be a surprise to publish such cartoons believing that the prophet is to be accused for what muslims do..which is totally unfair.And I’ve been talking about that and posted here many comments on regarding this point hoping that someone may understand how was our prophet.

I guess that’s all, as i told u getting to know us better is the only way..and it’s our responsiblilty.And thanks for your polite, civil and please feel free to ask if u want to know more about islam and muslims, maybe i wont be able to answer all questions and u’ll find ofcourse many other fellows who will,but after all atleast u broke the ice.

“would just like to orient you to the fact that islam doesn’t aknowledge any intermediatery person or thing between a Muslim and God,”
You may not and Islam may not, but the uneducated and illiterate 9/10 of muslims around the world take the words of their mullah as the truth and will do anything he sets them up to do.
In the same context, please answer me this: if no intermediary stands between you and Allah, what exactly is mohammed to you?

“unfortunately, the media is politically controlled not just in our countries but all over the world,”
Again, don’t conscribe the faults of your own countries to ours – most of the media in the west has a political agenda but is in no way controlled by the government or even political parties.
“However, if we are to blame ourselves for the harm inflicted upon us due to some of our people’s bad decisions…”
What harm? No harm has befallen you. You have been shown a cartoon criticizing your inactivity in the face of numerous acts of violence in the name of your peaceful god.

“…Why didn’t the US blame itself for the harm inflicted upon it in September 11, due to the bad, and unjust decisions of its leaders?”
What harm? Would you please ellaborate? As far as I have understood, Osama Bin Lade, through Al Qaeda, devised a retaliation against the USA for “defiling the soil” of his homeland Saudi Arabia, despite the fact that the US came there at the urgence of the Saudi government in order to protect and liberate muslims from the tyranny of another muslim. Would you rather that Saddam Hussein had been left unchecked to invade the rest of the middle east right and left as he pleased?

I’ve written a long letter in reply, but it seems I’m not allowed to post it here, as the moderator of this website says I’ve said it before. It says duplicate letter found or something like that.

I’m sorry I’m not allowed to post my reply, maybe I’ll try to get a hotmail address so you’ll be able to get it from there.