What community of liberals (using the US definition) doesn’t think the death of Theo van Gogh isn’t a tragedy and an outrage? Don’t strawman, no one thinks he’s a zealot because of the film that inspired his murdered to action.

For the rest of you all, and the author of this post:

I sympathise with the alienation felt by children of immigrants, Third Culture Children. However, it is NOT banal to say that nothing excuses violence; to the extent to which the post’s author can say “Of course one could say that but I do not think it is particularly helpful or constructive as the rioting is happening and there are reasons why it is happening.  What is taking place in France today has been brewing for the past 30 years. People and especially young people who are constantly and incessantly faced with racism and marginalistion in their daily lives whether on the streets of the  US,  Europe, Palestine,  apartheid South Africa, or Bolivia will eventually take to the streets. The riots are the outcome of a culmination of experiences and incidents over a period of time, they are not simply happening in a vacuum of nothingness.  France will have to face the reality of this otherwise it and Europe will sink into further violence as communities become even more polarised.” requires a very important assumption:

All European French people are sufficiently responsible for the actions of a few of them (the police, the Le Pen voters) that stopping the latter is the obligation of the former.

To the extent that we all are obliged to police our communities, to stand up and declaim about the problems we see in “our” societies, this is perhaps fair. It does however posit another assumption.

All African-decent French people are sufficiently responsible for the actions of a few of them (the rioters, the subset of the youth that are members of gangs, the subset that commit crime (at a higher rate than the general population) that stopping the latter is the responsibility of the former.

To say “there are reasons why the marginalised youth do these things” is helpful only in determining how to approach the problem, not whom should do so. Vicious cycles may exist (poverty provoking crime exacerbating negative stereotypes about the minority in the minds of the majority leading to more poverty) but ultimately the closest party to the problem must take responsibility for solving it. The racist individual must accept that to group all minority members as one, and judge them based on a subset, is not just unfair and immoral but unintelligent and ignorant.

This means that majority-culture-racism must be dealt with by the majority culture, regardless of whether the minority has earned the stereotypes with their bad behaviour. This also means that the minority must acknowledge that they are morally consequential, sentient entities and thus cannot reasonably say “Someone sneering at me made me set fire to a building or a car”. If a member of a minority is to have the same rights and respect as a member of the majority, they must accept that they should be held to the same standard, without any consideration for latent extenuating circumstances. The broader minority community must stop making excuses for that sort of behaviour and begin to prevent it internally.

That last begins a virtuous cycle, lessen the crime and that (combined with the positive efforts of the majority culture) will lessen the racism, which will eventually lessen the poverty, and slowly things improve for the better.

There is no other solution. The far-right would deport citizens, which is so horrendously racist as to defy imagination. The center-right would ignore the problem and assume it will solve itself. The minority-culture apologists feel that all minority members are children, not responsible for their actions, and further feel that any problems or flaws in the minority society must be corrected by the majority. This implicitly racist proposition galls me just as much as the perspective of Le Pen; it is the “White Man’s Burden” reformulated for the 21st century and tragically championed by the very people it insults.

Being African, being muslim, being poor, being ignored or insulted by the majority culture, none of these things should make one less responsible for their actions.

I find it tragic and a bit disgusting that the above article suggests to the contrary. Shame on the author.

Funny, but not surprising. I mean, Theo van Gogh was instantly transformed from one of the greatest postmodern progressive filmmakers of our time, into a right-wing Christian zealot whose movies were nothing more than neo-Nazi hate propaganda, all because he got himself killed by another ‘disadvantaged’ youth.

And liberal America, for the sin of being attacked by 19 ‘disadvantaged’ youths, is now a Nazi empire.

What is a neocon? A liberal who’s been mugged by ‘disadvantaged’ youths.

Please consider these verses:

“When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and whey were left in the Harra (ie. rocky land). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died…” http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html. Read verse 261 Yes, they were thieves, but….

“The military expeditions (Ghazawat, literally raid) in which the Messenger personally participated were twenty-six. Some say there were twenty-seven.” Tabari IX:118 I would say that Tabari and Bukhari are pretty good sources. SO old Mohammed went and and raided towns and caravans, taking loot and slaves. A slaver! Read this: “And all married women are forbidden unto you save those captives whom your right hand possess (your slaves). It is a decree of Allah for you. The Koran, Muslim 4:24. Pretty sick!

How about this: Mohammed says… “Why is it, O ‘A’isha (his 9 year old wife!) that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain……. ,” The Koran, Muslim 4:2127.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/004.smt.html#004.2127

“Indeed in the Messenger of Allaah (Muhammad) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes for (a meeting with) Allah” (al-Ahzaab33:21). Also, the Quran forbids criticism of the prophet and his actions. As if I care…

Note the references in the Quran and the libks to Islamic sites.

We know from Islamic histories that Mohammed was guilty of countless acts of cruelty: building a fire on a man’s chest, many brutal tortures, dozens of unprovoked raids on caravans, enslaving hundreds or maybe thousands, raping captive woman, hundreds of executions, and taking a 9 year old girl to his bed, murdering an old woman who criticized him (Asma Marwan, do a search if you want more details ) and many more. These events are found in accounts written by Mohammed’s own friends and followers. Oh yes, this was the same guy that while making up rules for others, invented special rules only for himself. How cute! And yet, according to Islam “Indeed in the Messenger of Allaah (Muhammad) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes for (a meeting with) Allah” (al-Ahzaab33:21). Also, the Quran forbids criticism of the prophet and his actions. As if I care…

Sokari, see if you can figure it out. The Muslims who riot and kill are just being good Muslims, doing what their prophet did.

John aka Kactuz

le lien: http://maghreblog.net/77_77.html

tahank you for your post!

I hope you understood that. My Spanish is OK, but I prefer Portuguese. Note that I used the diminutive form of the noun “grupos.” That either denotes affection or contempt.

Racism? I assume you mean “religionism”, or something. People like Pedro are the first to discriminate and the first to want special favors.

About Islam. In case you folks haven’t read /seen the news in the last last month, let me bring you up to date: riots in France, Denmark, England, Ethiopia, bombs in India, Iran, Iraque, beheadings in Indonesia (3 girls), not to mention attacks on Copts in Egypt (Pedro, were these resistance, too?). What do these events are have in common? Take a wild guess! There are millions of latinos in Europe and they are not out burning vehicles and buildings. Why not?

As I have said before, Islam is oppressive and intolerant. It is a religion of hate and anger, and most of all it is a religion of denial. In my opinion, it all goes back to their dear prophet, a man who was a slaver, murderer, torturer, wife-beater, etc….

Now those are serious accusations, so I had better have proof. I would not want to slander an innocent man. Does anybody want the references or links? Please, oh please, let someone say yes.

I don’t have a blog, but I am fighting ignorance over at http://www.altmuslim.com (a good site) and I sometimes post at http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au (another good site). You can also probably find me on the Internet.

John, aka Kactuz

A blind heart
opens borders
and fail the masses
who choose
rudderless captains.

jfrancis